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  1. #181
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    I am not saying you are not aware. But I have to say I am actually quite shocked at how you talk about boat people. You of all people - who have escaped persecution and been granted refugee status.

    This particularly;

    "People arriving by boat are choosing which country they want to go to, like they choose their holiday destination. That is why they refuse to go through UNHCR, cause UN will send them to ANY safe country that has vacancy, not necessarily the country you like. Their biggest problem in detention becomes not enough cigarettes, and their excuse for running riots, not having smart phones."

    Is utterly and categorically untrue - and smacks of the myths perpetrated by the likes of Alan Jones. Mental illness is rife in Detention centres - as are suicide attempts. And let me assure you, they are not trying to kill themselves over smart phones and cigarettes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fairyfloss View Post
    I am fully aware of how lucky I am and very grateful to have come and have the blessing to live here.the fact that I am alive and have a family of my own, is testament to how lucky I was; I know a lot of people who never got the chance. May they all rest in peace.
    Ch

  2. #182
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    Great post babyla - but we all know, some people just don't want to hear the truth - no matter how much we try to get them to listen.

    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    You're right there does need to be a better process with under the UNHCR. The current wait time with the number of global refugees would be 192 years. Without Australia currently meeting it's obligations under the Refugee Convention this seems very unlikely. Maybe this would be a better discussion?

    We have come a long way VP - have you watched Go Back to Where You Came From? yet, I posted a link for you over a year ago in our last thread. It really does explain the confused notions people who have of "the queue", the camps and the actual reality for lots of people - views other than 1 person here on BH who you are choosing to take as correct when in fact a lot of what Fairyfloss has posted is inaccurate - namely boat people do not take places of other arrivals.

    I'm out, I want to spend Sunday with my family (actually DH is over it) and there are enough accurate links posted by people here for people to find out facts on their own without going around in circles with the same lines spouted which started with numerous governments every election - queue jumpers, illegals etc...

    The ASRC has the latest figures on everything: - on the left are the links to current statistics and information.

    http://www.asrc.org.au/resources/statistics/

    Kon Karapanagiotidis also makes for interesting viewing - 20 minutes.

    http://wheelercentre.com/videos/vide...so-frightened/

    Julian Burnside - Barrister and Human Rights Activist shares here how we have been misled in our understanding of asylum seekers arriving by boat as he puts it

    "The etiquette of the checkout at Coles is not how it works when you are running for your life"

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...#ixzz2ZcpYxFHp

    If you can't be bothered reading it, then watch the video.

    Lastly, I just want to add that I used to have many of the ill informed views that people have around people who seek asylum. It wasn't until I started working with families who had arrived by boat at my school that I educated myself on the issue and found out lots of what I had thought was wrong. Sometimes, you don't know what you don't know.

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  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    Fairy Floss, there are some inaccuracies in your post that need clarifying..

    FACT: Asylum seekers who arrive here by boat DO NOT take places of asylum seekers in UNCHR camps.

    There is no queue or processing system accessible to asylum seekers in their home countries. By definition, to be considered a refugee you must be outside your country of origin.

    [/FONT]
    If you look at the refugee program in isolation your post may be technically correct. However if you look at it in conjunction with the Special Humanitarian Program it is misleading.

    * asylum seekers that arrive here via boats do take limited places away from others in need who can't afford to pay people smugglers. The number of special humanitarian program visa places is limited each year. The more onshore arrivals... The less places are available for offshore applicants.
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...info-sheet.pdf
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

    * People within their native country can still be considered for resettlement within Australia via the special humanitarian visa subclass 201
    http://www.immi.gov.au/visas/humanitarian/offshore/201/

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  6. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I am not saying you are not aware. But I have to say I am actually quite shocked at how you talk about boat people. You of all people - who have escaped persecution and been granted refugee status.

    This particularly;

    "People arriving by boat are choosing which country they want to go to, like they choose their holiday destination. That is why they refuse to go through UNHCR, cause UN will send them to ANY safe country that has vacancy, not necessarily the country you like. Their biggest problem in detention becomes not enough cigarettes, and their excuse for running riots, not having smart phones."

    Is utterly and categorically untrue - and smacks of the myths perpetrated by the likes of Alan Jones. Mental illness is rife in Detention centres - as are suicide attempts. And let me assure you, they are not trying to kill themselves over smart phones and cigarettes.
    I partially disagree with this post. I think people who arrive by boat are avoiding the UNHCR process because of the lengthy wait (understandable) and because they want to choose their destination. They fly into Indonesia/Malaysia with their passports and then hop on a boat to Australia. If that's not choosing your destination I don't know what is.

    As for the conditions in the detention centres I agree the wait isn't good for people's mental health but then again I dont think its as one sided as youre making out.

    Can't you understand why fairy floss is cranky? She waited in a difficult situation while year after year .. while people who could afford to pay people smugglers took the limited number off special humanitarian program visas.

    If anyone has a right to an opinion on this... If anyone knows what they are talking about its fairy floss.

    I often get a accused of being close minded and not willing to listen to the other side as I only read/watch 50% of the stories/videos recommended to me (computer is still broken so no I haven't watched come back to where you came from). Yet when someone with actual personal experience gives their two cents... The bleeding hearts tell her everything she says is wrong (they are right because they knew someone at school who knew someone who was an asylum seeker... Blah blah blah).

    Seems to me the bleeding hearts are just as unwilling to budge on this issue.

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  8. #185
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    And whose fault is that? It never used to be that way - until the Libs changed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    If you look at the refugee program in isolation your post may be technically correct. However if you look at it in conjunction with the Special Humanitarian Program it is misleading.

    * asylum seekers that arrive here via boats do take limited places away from others in need who can't afford to pay people smugglers. The number of special humanitarian program visa places is limited each year. The more onshore arrivals... The less places are available for offshore applicants.
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...info-sheet.pdf
    http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

    * People within their native country can still be considered for resettlement within Australia via the special humanitarian visa subclass 201
    http://www.immi.gov.au/visas/humanitarian/offshore/201/

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  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I partially disagree with this post. I think people who arrive by boat are avoiding the UNHCR process because of the lengthy wait (understandable) and because they want to choose their destination. They fly into Indonesia/Malaysia with their passports and then hop on a boat to Australia. If that's not choosing your destination I don't know what is.

    As for the conditions in the detention centres I agree the wait isn't good for people's mental health but then again I dont think its as one sided as youre making out.

    Can't you understand why fairy floss is cranky? She waited in a difficult situation while year after year .. while people who could afford to pay people smugglers took the limited number off special humanitarian program visas.

    If anyone has a right to an opinion on this... If anyone knows what they are talking about its fairy floss.

    I often get a accused of being close minded and not willing to listen to the other side as I only read/watch 50% of the stories/videos recommended to me (computer is still broken so no I haven't watched come back to where you came from). Yet when someone with actual personal experience gives their two cents... The bleeding hearts tell her everything she says is wrong (they are right because they knew someone at school who knew someone who was an asylum seeker... Blah blah blah).

    Seems to me the bleeding hearts are just as unwilling to budge on this issue.
    Indonesia is not a signatory to the convention. Neither is Malaysia.
    Either way, why do people take such issue with the idea that a refugee might like some choice about where they go? Why is that such an awful thing? Genuine q, it really confuses me. Why should they not have a choice? And by choosing one of the countries that takes the least number of refugees, aren't they doing the right and fair thing anyway? Why would you choose to go to a country that is not bound to help you? Or a country already struggling with a large number of refugees?

    Fairy floss is entitled to her view on her experience, but the fact is, she is wrong about the queue issue. People coming by boat do not take places away from those in camps. The queue is a myth. I posted info a page or so back.

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  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I partially disagree with this post. I think people who arrive by boat are avoiding the UNHCR process because of the lengthy wait (understandable) and because they want to choose their destination. They fly into Indonesia/Malaysia with their passports and then hop on a boat to Australia. If that's not choosing your destination I don't know what is.

    As for the conditions in the detention centres I agree the wait isn't good for people's mental health but then again I dont think its as one sided as youre making out.

    Can't you understand why fairy floss is cranky? She waited in a difficult situation while year after year .. while people who could afford to pay people smugglers took the limited number off special humanitarian program visas.

    If anyone has a right to an opinion on this... If anyone knows what they are talking about its fairy floss.

    I often get a accused of being close minded and not willing to listen to the other side as I only read/watch 50% of the stories/videos recommended to me (computer is still broken so no I haven't watched come back to where you came from). Yet when someone with actual personal experience gives their two cents... The bleeding hearts tell her everything she says is wrong (they are right because they knew someone at school who knew someone who was an asylum seeker... Blah blah blah).

    Seems to me the bleeding hearts are just as unwilling to budge on this issue.
    I'm back.

    FFS VP I'm calling straw man.

    Nobody is saying everything she is saying is wrong, there were inaccuracies in her post which people corrected. She also doesn't have complete authority on the subject as none of us do. Most people here accept that this issue is very complex and most of us back up our opinions with fact or present things which are upheld by research not by "someone they knew at school" - pretty offensive to imply this tbh.

    The link state that the SHP has resulted in "delays" not places taken. The notion of the queue is ridiculous and that is what I will not budge on, there are plenty of other things I will. When you look at it from a human perspective you have a different view point on why people get on boats, again watch "go back to where you came from" it's valuable viewing and was made by sbs.

    And.. I'm out. For now

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  14. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    Fairy Floss, there are some inaccuracies in your post that need clarifying..

    FACT: Asylum seekers who arrive here by boat DO NOT take places of asylum seekers in UNCHR camps.

    There is no queue or processing system accessible to asylum seekers in their home countries. By definition, to be considered a refugee you must be outside your country of origin.
    First of all I am/was Iranian refugee getting processed in Turkey, ie; country of first asylum, unlike some I didn't just jump on a plane and cherry pick my destination, I was happy to be sent anywhere, as long as I didn't have the death sentence that awaits me in my country of birth.

    Second, how about you have a quick read of the government's website where they admit to queue jumping. let me quote.
    " in 2011–12, 51 per cent of the 13 759 grants were to onshore IMA and non-IMA applicants."

    here is why its queue jumping.
    Since 1996, the onshore and offshore components of Australia’s Refugee and Humanitarian Program have been numerically linked. This means that every time an onshore applicant is granted a Protection Visa, a place is deducted from the offshore program. By making Australia’s resettlement quota to resettlement contingent on the number of onshore visas granted, the policy reduces the already limited opportunities for resettlement.

    please tell me if you end up with let's say 500 files on your desk, how do you exactly process them all, without making some sort of a natural queue? it gets worse since those files are not sorted by application date.

    if there truly are no queues how do you explain the length of time onshore applicants spend in waiting, vs the time offshore ones do.

    I am not saying anything about other countries, but Iranian have a choice to go to a signatory country of first asylum, yet they don't cause the large portion of them get sent to Canada and USA, where the weather and government support is not as readily available as here. USA will only allow 6 months of welfare payment, their Univesities costs heaps more, unless you have a job and private health, you have no medical support. Canada doesn't fair much better either.

    If they are not shopping for their desired country, then it should not matter which country they go to, since even with the PNG option, they can be settled in a third country and not necessarily in PNG.

    I am not saying they don't have a right to apply for protection, all i am saying is that we should de-link the number policy, so method of arrival does not advantage/disadvantage those with heaps of money to spare and buy their country of choice verses those playing by rules.

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  16. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by mama and her little bear View Post
    one concern of mine is from what I understand homosexuality is not legal in png is it? So people who flee their country based on fears because of their sexuality will be sent somewhere they can be prosecuted still?
    They have a option of being resettled in a third country like New Zealand.

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    Fairyfloss, I can't blame individual people for what you call 'queue jumping' but the terrible process itself. It's extremely hard for people to be processed on or offshore.

    Australia is notorious worldwide for our terrible policies when it comes to asylum seekers and IMO it is incredibly selfish of us that we expect to take few asylum seekers and leave them for other countries (including third-world with little room or resources) to deal with.
    Last edited by Benji; 21-07-2013 at 11:00.

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