+ Reply to Thread
Page 15 of 78 FirstFirst ... 513141516172565 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 777
  1. #141
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Thankyou for your assumptions, but you have no idea where I have come from and what I have experienced.

    If you feel that it is ok that people in difficult situations are entitled to express themselves through the use of violence then that is up to you. But I don't feel that it is appropriate when you are asking for help, that you bite the hand that feeds you.
    Oh, so you have come from a country where you were persecuted? You have perhaps fled war or extreme poverty? You have taken your family and risked it all because you had the choice between doing so or watching your wife and children die from starvation or state sanctioned murder? You perhaps are suffering PTSD or depression as a result?

    If so, I am truly sorry.

    If not, then I don't think your opinion on whether or not it is UNDERSTANDABLE (note I have not said violence is acceptable- completely different terms- it is possible to understand something while neither accepting OR condoning it) holds much weight. Your stance perfectly illustrates my "assumption" that you lack empathy because if you were able to put yourself in the shoes of a refugee and try to understand their fear, frustration and hopelessness, you would own that you may consider lashing out too. No where did I say violence was acceptable, no where. But take a brutalised person and lock them up for years for no crime and expect them to meekly accept it? To not protest? It goes against basic human nature.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Atropos For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (20-07-2013)

  3. #142
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    I can't emphasize enough how privileged we are in Australia. We are arguably the most privileged nation on Earth at this point in time. Simple things that we do every day and take for granted are out of the range of most people in this world.

    Just last week I had a 2 day raging headache that even prescription pain killers barely touched. I have these every 6 weeks or so. DF stayed at home so he could get the kids off to child care and school and then worked from home. I spent the best part of 2 days in bed with my head shielded from the light. When I was feeling better I was reading the autobiography of a Somalian woman born into a nomadic family. At the age of 5 she was responsible for tending to a herd of goats. She had to guide them to water and food, keep them out of danger of hyennas and lions and bring them back to camp every evening using her instincts to find her way. She wrote words to the effect of "there was no stopping for a headache". I felt really rather pathetic.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Busy-Bee For This Useful Post:

    Atropos  (20-07-2013),beebs  (20-07-2013),Gracie's Mum  (20-07-2013),risfaerie  (20-07-2013)

  5. #143
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,691
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    This assumption that this ridiculous and inhumane plan will stop people smugglers is reliant on two other fairly big assumptions:

    1) That the people smugglers actually care. That they won't lie to refugees that Australia is a valid safe haven. Last I checked, people smugglers weren't the most honest of people. There was an interview with two Sri Lankan men a few months ago that had sold all their belongings for a ticket to Australia because they were told by people smugglers of all the amazing opportunities for them in Australia and that they'd be welcomed with open arms. Of course they were turned back. Returned home where they had nothing left because they had sold everything for a ticket to nowhere.

    2) That refugees will actually know that this policy has been put in place and that they will not be granted access to Australia.

    Something tells me that these two big assumptions are way off the mark.
    I don't think it is at all. Half the asylum seekers coming via boats already have family in Australia that help arrange the travel. They have phone calls until just before departure. The news is going to get out. And stop the boats.

    And then hopefully we can put the time and $$ into processing asylum seekers who have been waiting in UNHCR camps for years. We'll probably still make a stuff all dint against the large numbers of refugees worldwide, but at least this way people (babies!) won't be dying on dodgy boats.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to VicPark For This Useful Post:

    Blossompossumxxxx  (20-07-2013)

  7. #144
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,691
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    It is at this point you report to a moderator, not become one. The reason I am taking this point to task is that far too often I see people who feel that they know what's best for the forum and attempt to shut down communication by isolating forum members and polluting a chance to enlighten, engage and convey. Again, it's not helpful so please stop it We are adults and capable of making up our own minds and that includes standing up to those who feel they are entitled to make decisions on our behalf.
    I think I love you.

  8. #145
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sydney South
    Posts
    1,922
    Thanks
    1,232
    Thanked
    854
    Reviews
    10
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    I have a legitimate question....

    I agree on principal that genuine asylum seekers should get help from us. We are a lucky country and I believe we have a responsibility to share this with less fortunate especially when children are involved. If I thought I could save my children or give them a better life I would swim here myself not caring if I drowned as long as I knew they were ok.

    But what I keep thinking is we are a country that is a large land mass but compared to these other countries we are being compared to we are Still a small population. Add to that baby boomers retiring, what happens when we have more people requiring government assistance then we have tax payers?

    What happens when hospitals can't keep up with patients and schools just can't keep up with students and there is simply not enough money coming in to fix this.

    I am not saying we are there or even close to that point I honestly don't have the figures. But I just think that it is naive that building a ferry to bring in anyone claiming asylum - no questions asked - will not get abused big time.

    From emotional point of view I want to send all our wasted food to Africa, I want to build big houses for our homeless to have a roof over their head, I want there to be a universal panic button for anyone getting abused to get the help they need and i want to see anyone who mistreats children or animals dealt the same punishment every day until the day they day they die. There are so many other changes I want to see in this world.

    Although practically I know this wont happen in my lifetime. I don't know if Rudds new policy is the answer, personally I don't know enough about it, but I don't think it makes people monsters if they want to look at the bigger picture of asylum policy and its impact then just the emotional side.

    If it is true that Rudd is just vote grabbing and does not generally feel this is the best solution then I agree that's just sick.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Meld85 For This Useful Post:

    tootsiegirl  (20-07-2013)

  10. #146
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    10,012
    Thanks
    14,124
    Thanked
    7,612
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    100 Posts in a week
    I think it a fairly massive assumption that all asylum seekers will be dole bludgers and never contribute to society. If we have a first rate education system, then these asylum seekers could be the doctors and nurses that work in said hospitals, or the teachers in the schools.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to beebs For This Useful Post:

    Squishy115  (22-07-2013)

  12. #147
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
    Winner 2008 & 2009 - Community Minded thread
    Winner 2009 - Mod Award - most passionate member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    18,597
    Thanks
    1,028
    Thanked
    3,125
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 postsRuby Star - 15,000 posts
    Just one the small population thing, the percentage of refugees that we take is actually quite small compared to other countries.

    The stats are percentage of refugees per 1000 population:

    Australia takes 0.98%
    Austria takes 5.08%

    The Netherlands is the closest Western country in population size and their percentage is 4.51.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ana Gram For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (20-07-2013),risfaerie  (20-07-2013)

  14. #148
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Adelaide foothills
    Posts
    753
    Thanks
    462
    Thanked
    426
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Yes, I am aware as I have been studying this for the last 3.5 years. It is also a case of they have to be in Australia for it to apply, so they have managed to get around this. Morally though..
    Well if that's the case, it contradicts your earlier question then.
    And no, they don't have to be in Australia for it to apply.


    Meld85 wrote: But what I keep thinking is we are a country that is a large land mass but compared to these other countries we are being compared to we are Still a small population.
    Lebanon has a population of around 4 million and it has taken in a whopping one million refugees from Syria alone and with a hell of a lot less resources than Australia. Even Palestinians, themselves in camps in South Lebanon have opened their homes to those who seek refuge. 1 in 5 people over there are refugees. By contrast, we have 1 in 800 (source: World Vision 2012 report I read).

    That's, what, 10 people for every 8000 Australians. In a population of some 25 million. Five times larger than Lebanon's not to mention a country with rich resources, a multi-lingual and multicultural populace, a booming economy and a low unemployment rate. Are we really too small to take on these pathetically small boats and process their claims here with all this plus our sophisticated security systems and intelligence networks?

    Beebs wrote: then these asylum seekers could be the doctors and nurses that work in said hospitals, or the teachers in the schools.
    They already are. Some have gone on to receive state honours and worldwide recognition for their work giving back to this country. My teacher was one of them

    Again, I am keen to sight the policy document regarding implementation of this "new solution" which will (hopefully) provide us with a clearer picture as to what sort of terms and conditions PNG and Australia have agreed.

    And as a totally different unrelated point, I just realised it was Saturday five minutes ago..

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Caviar For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (20-07-2013)

  16. #149
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    404
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked
    109
    Reviews
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Meld85 View Post
    I have a legitimate question....

    I agree on principal that genuine asylum seekers should get help from us. We are a lucky country and I believe we have a responsibility to share this with less fortunate especially when children are involved. If I thought I could save my children or give them a better life I would swim here myself not caring if I drowned as long as I knew they were ok.

    But what I keep thinking is we are a country that is a large land mass but compared to these other countries we are being compared to we are Still a small population. Add to that baby boomers retiring, what happens when we have more people requiring government assistance then we have tax payers?

    What happens when hospitals can't keep up with patients and schools just can't keep up with students and there is simply not enough money coming in to fix this.

    I am not saying we are there or even close to that point I honestly don't have the figures. But I just think that it is naive that building a ferry to bring in anyone claiming asylum - no questions asked - will not get abused big time.

    From emotional point of view I want to send all our wasted food to Africa, I want to build big houses for our homeless to have a roof over their head, I want there to be a universal panic button for anyone getting abused to get the help they need and i want to see anyone who mistreats children or animals dealt the same punishment every day until the day they day they die. There are so many other changes I want to see in this world.

    Although practically I know this wont happen in my lifetime. I don't know if Rudds new policy is the answer, personally I don't know enough about it, but I don't think it makes people monsters if they want to look at the bigger picture of asylum policy and its impact then just the emotional side.

    If it is true that Rudd is just vote grabbing and does not generally feel this is the best solution then I agree that's just sick.
    I really like your questions and I have wondered the same things. I think there is a much bigger picture to consider before I get too set on one side is right etc. Im so undecided on the whole thing! My optimistic side hopes that the money we are paying to PNG (which I have been horrified to learn is the way it is) stimulates the economy, and in that sense perhaps the current residents will be pleased about this decision AND wouldn't it be amazing for the refugees to be part of the reason PNG becomes a better place for all. There are so, so many different parts of this huge problem to consider and there is clearly no easy solution...

  17. #150
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    The problem is that there are no easy answers to this issue. So long as there is tribalism, religion, mass poverty, highly unequal resource/power distribution, lack of education etc in the world then there will be asylum seekers. We can only hope to tackle the fallout of such issues (ie, asylum seekers). Until we have a new world order that addresses the above issue to a major extent then we will have asylum seekers.


 

Similar Threads

  1. 4 corners - asylum seekers...
    By babyla in forum News & Current Affairs
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 30-04-2013, 09:47
  2. Asylum seekers (frustration)
    By Witwicky in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 107
    Last Post: 19-08-2012, 14:38
  3. Zoo weekly exploiting asylum seekers. Sign the petition!
    By Ffrenchknickers in forum Social Issues
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 23-07-2012, 15:40

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Pyjamas.com.au
With so many gorgeous brands and styles for every season, our pyjamas, nighties, robes, sleepsuits and sleeping bags are lovely for lights out and perfect for lazy days. Get 10% off first order using code bubhub. Be quick offer ends 31/12/16.
sales & new stuffsee all
True Fairies
True Fairies is the first interactive website where children can engage and speak with a real fairy through the unique webcam fairy portal. Each session is tailored to the child, and is filled with enchantment and magic.
Visit website to find out more!
featured supporter
The Health Hub & Glowing Expectations
Glowing Expectations is conveniently located at The Health Hub in Darlinghurst. We offer pre & post natal personal training, small group pregnancy exercise classes, flexible mums & bubs sessions, massage, & naturopathy in our air-conditioned studio.
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!