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  1. #131
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    No

    I will however stop engaging you in this conversation.

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    Caviar  (20-07-2013)

  3. #132
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    I agree with Ana on this. As with any bad habit sometimes it is good to hear words of encouragement from those who are trying to kick or have kicked said bad habit.

    I have have posted mountains of information and answered many questions. All of which are ignored and then the same questions just keep getting asked over and over. It is very frustrating. Sometimes you just have to know when to quit - but you can't because the misinformation being spouted is just so ridiculously bad and wrong that you feel you have to answer, but you shouldn't because it will get you nowhere....and round you go again..

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    orlyon  (20-07-2013)

  5. #133
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

    I'm concerned that skirts dangerously close, if not actually, refoulment.

    Example: if an asylum seeker is gay and escaping a regime that persecutes them, how can we send them to PNG where homosexuality is illegal.

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  7. #134
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    I think thats a little ott especially seeing as honosexuality is illegal in afgan and the punishment is the death penalty

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    But the whole idea of non-refoulment is that you do not send someone to a place where they are in danger or persecuted. So how is that over the top?

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    Atropos  (20-07-2013)

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    I think you mean refoulement which means the expulsion of persons who have the right to be recognised as refugees (eg. from the French "refouler" - to return). Non-refoulement is a principle which forbids the expulsion of said persons to not only their place of origin wherein they were persecuted but also any other country which may persecute them based on their race, religion, nationality, social group or political opinion (unless they are found to be a national security risk). The clincher here though is that its application requires a recognised refugee status. So in the case of people in boats found in Australian waters who are redirected to PNG, this principle would not apply.

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    meatpopsicle  (22-07-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    Im just saying there is a lot more to worry about than how the homosexual asylum seekers to go in png.

    More inportant things like the children. Employment etc.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    My main concern regarding this new policy is the welfare of children who are offered very little protection (from other adults) once detained. Again, will be interested to read how this policy pans out in terms of whether the detention areas will be leased by Australia like the US does Guantanamo from Cuba.

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  13. #137
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    Im just saying there is a lot more to worry about than how the homosexual asylum seekers to go in png.

    More inportant things like the children. Employment etc.

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    It is something that concerns me greatly. There are many things about this policy that of great concern, I am very hesitant to place any one thing over another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    I think you mean refoulement which means the expulsion of persons who have the right to be recognised as refugees (eg. from the French "refouler" - to return). Non-refoulement is a principle which forbids the expulsion of said persons to not only their place of origin wherein they were persecuted but also any other country which may persecute them based on their race, religion, nationality, social group or political opinion (unless they are found to be a national security risk). The clincher here though is that its application requires a recognised refugee status. So in the case of people in boats found in Australian waters who are redirected to PNG, this principle would not apply.
    Yes, I am aware as I have been studying this for the last 3.5 years. It is also a case of they have to be in Australia for it to apply, so they have managed to get around this. Morally though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    My main concern regarding this new policy is the welfare of children who are offered very little protection (from other adults) once detained. Again, will be interested to read how this policy pans out in terms of whether the detention areas will be leased by Australia like the US does Guantanamo from Cuba.
    Yes, very upsetting. Even unaccompanied minors with family in Australia with valid visas will be sent to PNG

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    More important in your eyes, not quite so sure that it would be more important to said homosexual who will face danger in PNG.

    It doesn't have to be that we only focus on one or two of the "most important" things, we can focus on it all, all the bad things that could happen if we go through with this new policy.

    I think we need to keep in mind the TB rate there and the outbreak of antibiotic resistant TB as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    Im just saying there is a lot more to worry about than how the homosexual asylum seekers to go in png.

    More inportant things like the children. Employment etc.

    Sent from my GT-N7000 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Atropos  (20-07-2013)

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    More important in your eyes, not quite so sure that it would be more important to said homosexual who will face danger in PNG.
    Was just about to say this!

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    Open discussion is fine, if each person accepts the views presented to them and weighs them carefully before responding. Some posters like to twist words or only partly respond while pushing their own agendas, ignoring facts that have been provided to them ad nauseum.
    So Ana, while I see your point I think sometimes we have to respond to provide a balanced view for any readers that may come through and also because I just cannot stand willful misrepresentation of facts or selective fact sharing. And Caviar, while I see your point, I believe we are all old enough to self moderate if needed. Some posters continually stir the pot and rile others up- it's a fair call to say "stop feeding the trolls"

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