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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Oh my! How lucky for you that the place you feel safest to birth is socially acceptable and does not cause others to question your prerogatives, intent and love for your child. Nor accuse you of putting your own needs above that of your unborn child....
    Please do not assume my intent with my comment--and nowhere did I say anything stated in your comment. I genuinely feel people who can be so confident that all will be fine are lucky. I used to be that confident.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I can understand that. But again have a hard time understanding why one wouldn't choose to try and find a midwife they are comfortable with, have developed a relationship with, to attend for support and medical intervention if necessary.
    Conversely, I cannot fathom wanting a Caesarian. That's the thing though, we don't have to understand other people's choices- but it is nice if we can respect their right to make them.
    It's like vaccination- I am very passionately pro vax, but I respect other people's right to not get them. I don't understand it, I don't like it, I will argue til the cows come home about any misinformation I see being put forward about vaccinating but I don't support forced vaccination. I don't "get" freebirth- but I would never support forcing someone to birth in some other way.

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  4. #163
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    At the end of the day, no matter how "natural" something is, sometimes medical intervention is required. I'm sorry, but if home birthing advocates are saying that home birth shouldn't be undertaken in certain circumstances, then it probably shouldn't. There are absolutely sometimes reasons why medical intervention is necessary. Don't get me wrong, I think it happens far too much at the moment. But I see posts often that imply that natural and homebirth is always best under any circumstances, and that just isn't the case.

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  6. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Conversely, I cannot fathom wanting a Caesarian. That's the thing though, we don't have to understand other people's choices- but it is nice if we can respect their right to make them.
    It's like vaccination- I am very passionately pro vax, but I respect other people's right to not get them. I don't understand it, I don't like it, I will argue til the cows come home about any misinformation I see being put forward about vaccinating but I don't support forced vaccination. I don't "get" freebirth- but I would never support forcing someone to birth in some other way.
    I'm not trying to force anyone to birth a certain way, like you've stated for other arguments, I'm trying to understand why somebody would not at least want a qualified midwife present to intervene or assess if the situation has gone pear-shaped and intervention is needed. Things can go wrong so quickly and it is naive or ignorant to say that medical intervention hasn't saved lives. Yes I understand things can go wrong in hospital and there is not always a happy ending. But lives are saved more often than not.

    I never understood elective c/s until my birth experience, now I do. I should say, nothing went wrong in hospital to make me scared to give birth, my fear is solely from giving birth to a dead baby and having a hard time making my mind understand that babies are born alive all the time (obviously I've witnessed it many times). That is something I will work extensively on throughout this pregnancy to help myself trust the birthing process.

    As a doula I completely understand the 'sphincter law,' it's a reason I support home births and more birth centers, why I understand its important to be surrounded by people you trust who can help you stay relaxed. I also am not allowed to attend any birth where there is not a qualified medical professional present, because I could then possibly be held responsible if something went wrong. Midwives have such value and you can hire them early in pregnancy giving you plenty of time to build a trusting relationship with them.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 16-07-2013 at 16:51.

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  8. #165
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    PS - I agree with Atropos though, I would never agree with forcing a woman to birth where she doesn't want to. That in itself would hinder labour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Yet a perfectly healthy woman who is pregnant with a perfectly healthy baby is allowed make the choice to give birth via major abdominal surgery when it would be far safer for both her and her child to give birth vaginally? Is that not also irresponsible? Or....is it not because she carries none of the responsibility? Is giving up this responsibility what makes her responsible?

    How can it be irresponsible when I take on all responsibility when doing so?
    Where have I said anything about c-sections?

    I wouldn't want to take any woman's birth choice away. Doesn't mean I have to think it is responsible!
    Last edited by BigRedV; 16-07-2013 at 16:59.

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  12. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I know many reasons why a woman may choose an elective c/s. I have no qualms with women choosing them at all. Why does this understanding not extend to those that FB? I went to hospital for my first birth as a survivor of sexual abuse, no one seemed to give 2 hoots about it and my wishes were completely disregarded because a group of people wanted to watch a natural birth. I left the hospital traumatised and completely detached from my son, I don't remember the first 6 months of his life- only that I was suicidal and wanted to drive my car into a tree several times a week.



    For the same reason I would not hire someone to watch me do a poop or have sex. Because the act of watching, expecting performance can hinder the birth hormones which I am sure as a doula you understand. As bizarre as it sounds, for me the idea of having someone watch me give birth is like having someone watch me have sex or poop- something I can do in front of hubby but never something I could do in front of anyone else. I am sure you have heard about the sphincter law?

    That may sound selfish but IMO it's about as selfish as someone choosing to have an elective c/s for non-medical reasons.
    You obviously thought it was a good idea the first time?

    Maybe you were jaded by your first birth experience. Being a private hospital it doesn't surprise me, but don't think that all hospitals are like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm not trying to force anyone to birth a certain way, like you've stated for other arguments, I'm trying to understand why somebody would not at least want a qualified midwife present to intervene or assess if the situation has gone pear-shaped and intervention is needed. Things can go wrong so quickly and it is naive or ignorant to say that medical intervention hasn't saved lives. Yes I understand things can go wrong in hospital and there is not always a happy ending. But lives are saved more often than not.

    I never understood elective c/s until my birth experience, now I do. I should say, nothing went wrong in hospital to make me scared to give birth, my fear is solely from giving birth to a dead baby and having a hard time making my mind understand that babies are born alive all the time (obviously I've witnessed it many times). That is something I will work extensively on throughout this pregnancy to help myself trust the birthing process.

    As a doula I completely understand the 'sphincter law,' it's a reason I support home births and more birth centers, why I understand its important to be surrounded by people you trust who can help you stay relaxed. I also am not allowed to attend any birth where there is not a qualified medical professional present, because I could then possibly be held responsible if something went wrong. Midwives have such value and you can hire them early in pregnancy giving you plenty of time to build a trusting relationship with them.
    No, I didn't mean you were trying to, sorry if I wasn't clear- all I'm saying is that though you don't understand freebirthing ( and I don't either, ftr) you don't have to understand it. We don't have to understand each others wants and needs to make them valid, you know?

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  15. #169
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    You obviously thought it was a good idea the first time?

    Maybe you were jaded by your first birth experience. Being a private hospital it doesn't surprise me, but don't think that all hospitals are like that.
    No I didn't actually but didn't know you could give birth at home, I joked to hubby when my labour stalled for the 3rd time on the way to hospital that we should just stay home and he looked me dead in the eye and said he would drag me kicking and screaming to the hospital.

    Jaded is a very mild term, I prefer to call it traumatised.

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  17. #170
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Where have I said anything about c-sections?

    I wouldn't want to take any woman's birth choice away. Doesn't mean I have to think it is responsible!
    No idea if you mentioned c/s it's just a general theme.


 

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