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  1. #131
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    Mod-biscotti is online now Administrator Administrator
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    I am just sweeping through with the pink broom
    Just a reminder from earlier in the thread that all references to JF will de deleted

    I have just edited/deleted a few posts to remove reference to J.F.
    She requested a long time ago that her name and her website not be discussed on BH and vice versa also as she is a past member it falls under the gossiping rules. In light of that any reference to her will be removed by the moderating team.
    Cheers,
    Biscotti

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Big Bum- You evidently missed the big part of the mentioned woman's birth story (who Mods mentioned earlier isn't allowed to be named due to BH rules). She freebirthed without medical assistance. Therefore without any medical training herself or anyone else attending there was no point of having medical instruments present when nobody knew how to use them.

    Right or wrong, this was her decision and I think we need to remember that this woman is still suffering for what happened to her baby. The tactics used by this television program to have her involved are just a prime example of this.
    fair enough. I wont reference her again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbum View Post
    I should probably say that I do acknowledge that some c-sections would be unnecessary. I have been at a few births with friends where there was a lot of interference and failed inductions etc.. I don't think hospitals are perfect. Some could benefit from being a lot more mother friendly and hands off. I just don't know how I feel about the idea that obs are "cut happy".. maybe they are just being conservative because even if they know that some c-secs are not needed, you wouldnt want to wait too long and end up with a dead mother or baby.
    If you read the links I posted, the higher rate of c sections has actually NOT lead to lower infant/mother mortality rates- in fact, it's the opposite. It is a real problem in Australia and some other developed countries- I believe the USA is another example.

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  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbum View Post
    thanks for the links. I will read them soon. One point. I am fairly certain that the World Health organisation actually dropped their c-section rate recommendation a few years ago. I was aware that there was a difference between public and private hospital c-section rates. Is there any research on whether this is because the clients are different between the two settings?
    One of the links I posted talks about the myth that the rates are high because women are "too posh to push" and that it is actually driven by the doctors, not the patients. There are lots of articles and information on this online. I'm not sure about a study on the clientele. I know some women who have scrimped and saved for a private birth, others like me who could afford private but opted to go public. With my last, I looked at the hospitals within a certain radius of where I was living at the time and went public- the intervention rates at the closest private hospitals were far too high for my liking! Where we live now there is a greater trend towards natural birth and home birthing and only one public and one private hosp to choose from, so I may have chosen differently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    If you read the links I posted, the higher rate of c sections has actually NOT lead to lower infant/mother mortality rates- in fact, it's the opposite. It is a real problem in Australia and some other developed countries- I believe the USA is another example.
    I think it is mentioned on that doco "The Business of Being Born" that the USA has the highest intervention rates and infant/mother mortality rates of any developed nation - or one of the highest.

    I couldn't watch the program last night as I couldn't bare to give the show ratings. Utter nonsense journalism.

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  8. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    If you read the links I posted, the higher rate of c sections has actually NOT lead to lower infant/mother mortality rates- in fact, it's the opposite. It is a real problem in Australia and some other developed countries- I believe the USA is another example.
    But don't those statistics include the medically unnecessary elective sections as well? Which have apparently become more and more common?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubintummy View Post
    But don't those statistics include the medically unnecessary elective sections as well? Which have apparently become more and more common?
    Sure, but if you read the other articles posted, the higher rate of c sections is more often drs pushing for them than mothers. That's the point I'm trying to make.

    Some people medically need to have a c sect.

    Some people, for whatever reason, choose to have a c sect.

    And some people are given a section by doctors who decide that the mother will have one- regardless of need, for reasons of their own- convenience, money etc. -it is this group I feel most concerned about (as I know several people who fall into this category) as their bodies and their babies are placed at risk unnecessarily by the person most trusted to look after them and their best interests. International health authorities recognise this trend of performing medically unnecessary c sections. It is definitely happening. I'm actually a bit surprised that people aren't aware of it, tbh.

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    In reflecting on the TV program, I think it is unfortunate that no one was given the opportunity to reply to the father's concern that the mother's rights had overridden the rights of the child.

    The work and writings of Michel Odent (obstetrician) and Sarah J Buckley (MD) are clearly showing that the way a baby enters the world has a significant and profound impact on the baby's physical, mental and emotional health as a child and well into adulthood. A mother choosing to birth her baby in a calm, gentle way is actually making a choice that hugely benefits the rights of her baby to a good start in life. It is not a selfish choice at all.

    Unfortunately our hospitals are based on a through-put model, which is quite incompatible with the variable and individual nature of natural birth. We also live in a culture driven by fear and anxiety, hence many birth care providers feel obliged to be seen to be doing something (intervention) rather than wait to see what actually happens clinically. This can make it very hard for women to feel that they can achieve the calm and gentle birth that they desire for their baby within this hospital environment.

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  13. #139
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    Yes, it's a common misconception that home birth is all about the "selfish" mother whom puts the "experience" above the health of her baby. Balderdash. I birth at home primarily because I have a genuine belief, based on a ton of research and reading (scientific and otherwise), that the lack of intervention present in the independent midwifery mode of care is better for my babies.

    Mums will never stop choosing to birth at home so the healthcare system in this country needs to buck up and start supporting us better, with more affordable access to independent midwives and better education about the whole process. Maternity care should be provided as a completely separate entity to the hospital system so that low risk mummas can stop placing a burden on already stretched hospital resources. It makes complete sense to provide care in the home, yet it seems we're following in the footsteps of the US in terms of maternity care - despite their sub par performance in terms of maternal outcomes.

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  15. #140
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    Haven't read any other posts except first and last page.
    [QUOTE=BornToBe;7343813]Yes, it's a common misconception that home birth is all about the "selfish" mother whom puts the "experience" above the health of her baby.

    I have to admit this was my exact thought up until I joined a DIG and a few mothers were having home births. The passion they had to get that much desired home birth, free of any intervention made me change my exact way of thinking.

    It is such a shame that the only time home birthing is in the media is when a baby or mother dies yet they don't talk about the hospital tragedies which also happen.


 

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