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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    BigRedV you obviously believe that ultrasounds improve fetal outcomes, they don't. In saying that I did have ultrasounds (2) with my freebirth/unassisted pregnancy, and CTG monitoring (even though the false positive rate is extremely high) when I went postdates. I had both our best interests in mind when making the decision to freebirth a happy healthy mother AND baby.

    Also, at one of the homebirths that Lisa attended as a support person that they are investigating, there was a registered midwife present. Why isn't she being held accountable?
    How do they not improve fetal outcomes? Many issues can be picked up via ultrasound, giving forewarning so procedures can be put in place to achieve the best possible outcome for Mum & bub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I don't believe anybody freebirthing or an unassisted pregnancy is putting a baby first.
    Let me put this to you. I will start by saying I don't agree with my sisters choices but can see where she is coming from. Her first 2 births were in hospital, second being approx 50 mins. Her 3rd was accidentally free birthed, she didn't realise she was in labour until too late. Her DH walked in The house with barely enough time to catch the baby. She had called an ambulance but they live 1/2 he out of town. She decided to home birth her subsequent kids. I think she tried to get a midwife but as we live in the sticks one doesn't exist. Part if her reasoning was that her DH works away (1/2-1hr) and if she headed into town with 3 kids under 5 she would most likely have to stop in the side of the road and give birth (assuming she could drive in labour!). She felt her kids were much safer at home then in the side of a road with traffic and could be away from her birthing (if in car they would have no choice but to watch and hear). So for me she made a choice based on the safety of her current kids and that fact that all her births had been easy/complication free. And the fact it was that or most likely birth on the side of a road. Mind you her DH made it home for the births so an ambulance could of easily as well ( just another thing we don't agree on)

  4. #93
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Sorry, but I think not having any ultrasounds or care during pregnancy is irresponsible. You're not going to die from getting a checkup! And neither is the baby.

    I have no issue with homebirth.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Where did I say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    How do they not improve fetal outcomes? Many issues can be picked up via ultrasound, giving forewarning so procedures can be put in place to achieve the best possible outcome for Mum & bub.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1678458/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22856081

    http://apps.who.int/rhl/pregnancy_ch...izanjm_com/en/

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I think the only "wrong" thing [name removed] did was to put her career and livelihood in jeopardy to support women at home whom no one else would support. What was the alternative for these mothers? Freebirth by default? No one should be defaulted into making the decision to freebirth.
    But was there a good reason for everyone else to refuse support? (Again, just trying to get an understanding)
    No one in Australia is left with free birthing as the only option.
    Last edited by Mod-Uniquey; 14-07-2013 at 21:17. Reason: removal of name in quoted text

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    BigRedV you obviously believe that ultrasounds improve fetal outcomes, they don't. In saying that I did have ultrasounds (2) with my freebirth/unassisted pregnancy, and CTG monitoring (even though the false positive rate is extremely high) when I went postdates. I had both our best interests in mind when making the decision to freebirth a happy healthy mother AND baby.

    Also, at one of the homebirths that [removal of name]attended as a support person that they are investigating, there was a registered midwife present. Why isn't she being held accountable?
    I don't think anyone believes that ultrasounds in themselves improve fetal outcomes- they are simply a diagnostic tool. However, if an ultrasound showed your bub had a health condition which required urgent medical attention at birth, I'm guessing you may have chosen a hosp birth in that instance, to ensure the baby got the help he/she needed right away (think life saving surgery or similar-something that couldn't occur at home iykwim). So in that scenario, indirectly, an ultrasound would have been beneficial. Obviously there are some things an US won't pick up, or won't accurately show etc.

    I too wonder why the midwife is not being held accountable but the birth support person is? Is it a witch hunt?
    Last edited by Mod-Uniquey; 14-07-2013 at 21:18. Reason: removal of name in quoted text

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    I think not having an ultrasound is irresponsible for many reasons, whether it improves outcomes or not.

    For me:

    1. I've had a twin pregnancy
    2. I've had babies with congenital issues
    3. If it weren't for ultrasound, my 3rd baby would've been delivered naturally (well attempted anyway) when in fact she was transverse lie when I was 5cm dilated

    Ultrasounds have saved lives. To deny that is ignorant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miados2007 View Post
    Yes, Especially when your warned your baby is breach or you have complications beforehand & you still go through with it. Why take the risk?
    Because it would have been a csec and they carry their own risks. The mother chose the one she felt had less risk.

    Sent from my GT-P7500 using BubHub card have just as many risks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I too wonder why the midwife is not being held accountable but the birth support person is? Is it a witch hunt?
    The only thing I picked up on was whether or not there was some sort of question that the birth support person from my understanding used to be a registered midwife but was no longer registered so had to use the support person label but was she really acting in the role of midwife by saying there was a registered one there?

  13. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    But was there a good reason for everyone else to refuse support? (Again, just trying to get an understanding)
    No one in Australia is left with free birthing as the only option.
    Her OB advised cesarean due to one baby being breech. From memory this happened 4 weeks before she was due (can't remember when she went into labour) it doesn't leave much time to hunt around for a care provider.

    We also have an issue with managing breech birth not being taught because it was seen as too dangerous, it has now been said that it is safer than c/s but no one knows how to do them (not that it's hard IMO).

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I don't think anyone believes that ultrasounds in themselves improve fetal outcomes- they are simply a diagnostic tool. However, if an ultrasound showed your bub had a health condition which required urgent medical attention at birth, I'm guessing you may have chosen a hosp birth in that instance, to ensure the baby got the help he/she needed right away (think life saving surgery or similar-something that couldn't occur at one iykwim). So in that scenario, indirectly, an ultrasound would have been beneficial. Obviously there are some things an US won't pick up, or won't accurately show etc.

    I too wonder why the midwife is not being held accountable but the birth support person is? Is it a witch hunt?
    On the flip side you have US give false diagnosis and causing harm. Of course I am not going to argue your point, it's why I had the 18w ultrasound with DD. But I do not believe that it is 100% failsafe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mama and her little bear View Post
    there are many who believe breach is NOT a medical emergency, just a variation of 'normal'
    I wish there were more OBs that had this belief, my DD was breech and I gave in to a c-section after a long fought out battle with my Ob and spontaneous labour reaching 8cm and ultimately giving in to fear based on what I had been told. After nearly 4 years I still regret it.

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