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  1. #11
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    I think there needs to be a big boost in funding so the departments have the resources to investigate more reports of abuse.
    I once rang to report my ex mil's child abuse/neglect to her young children and it was quite a shocking case and when I followed it up as I was given the option to contact the local branch to find out if anything was being done anf I was told they didnt have the resources to investigate. This woman has had her children in foster care more than she has had them in her care because of abuse and neglect yet they wont even investigate.

    My mum works with docs and all too often she sees abused kids and talks to the department and time and time again they don't have the resources to do anything.

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  3. #12
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    I know this is an odd question, but why is child abuse not classed as assault or sexual assault and handled by the police more than by docs?? Not saying docs arent doing the best they can, but my understanding is the polices hands are tied a lot of the time due to it being kind of domestic.

    It doesn't make sense to me that a person isn't charged with physical assault straight up, rather than be investigated for child abuse.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    I know this is an odd question, but why is child abuse not classed as assault or sexual assault and handled by the police more than by docs?? Not saying docs arent doing the best they can, but my understanding is the polices hands are tied a lot of the time due to it being kind of domestic.

    It doesn't make sense to me that a person isn't charged with physical assault straight up, rather than be investigated for child abuse.
    I would imagine physical/sexual abuse they would be?

    But a lot of it is neglect, emotional abuse etc. I know the cases that I've been involved in is where the concern has being raised during pregnancy about their capacity to parent and the investigation has begun before the baby is born and then continues before there is a chance it cause harm, so there's no actual crime committed if that make sense?

  6. #14
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    Nothing will, IMO. It's been going on for centuries, and it's likely to continue for many more.

    I don't think it will prevent child abuse exactly, but it will prevent further child abuse from a particular perpetrator if we only let a person off lightly once. There's a chance some people can change, or were going through some sort of mental breakdown or whatever that lead to them doing something heinous, but something they won't do again. But do it again after you've done your time? Sorry buddy, you lost your chance... in jail for all eternity you go.

    I think it also might be easier for victims to come forward if the issue wasn't so shameful, and if they weren't treated as possible liars if it ever sees a court room. Because yeah, I wouldn't want to be blamed for my abuse or have it suggested that I was lying, or exaggerating, or whatever... and that happens too often with any sort of violent or sexual crime.

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  8. #15
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    Neglect is also illegal...just like physical and sexual abuse. DOCS are there to act on behalf of the children...the Police then prosecute the people who have abused them, if they have enough evidence.

    Edit: sorry, in response to Jennaisme's post.

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    Last edited by Albert01; 10-07-2013 at 21:06.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert01 View Post
    Neglect is also illegal...just like physical and sexual abuse. DOCS are there to act on behalf of the children...the Police then prosecute the people who have abused them, if they have enough evidence.

    Edit: sorry, in response to Jennaisme's post.

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    This system doesn't seem to be effective though. Why are peoples first instincts to call DoCs if theres an abuse or neglect situation, rather than the police? If, as an adult im harmed by another person through physical violence my first instinct isnt to call someone else, its to call the police, just as if I see an adult hit another adult.

    Wouldnt police and docs being called at the same time work slightly more effectively? The person abusing the kid is immediately arrested for assault, rather than it having to be proved they did it to begin with or that its severe enough.

    I dont know how or why this is acceptablw.

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  11. #17
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    If you do call the DOCS helpline it does advise you that if the child is in immediate danger then the correct response is to ring the police.
    As for case where physical abuse is happening, often this will mean that physical injuries need to be documented, photographed and doctors need to make a judgement about what was the cause of the injury e.g child might present to E.R with a fracture, family says he fell off bike, Dr determines the injury is non-accidental. However it is still up to the court to decide whether to believe the doctor or the family.
    Often children wont disclose abuse because it is all they have known, they love their parents, they have been told not to tell. So even if DOCS does investigate if they have no "proof" it is hard to remove children.
    There is another government department within NSW called JIRT- they are a unit made up of health and police it is there job to investigate allegations of Sexual abuse and physical abuse.
    Recently DOCS in NSW has started to offload alot of its work to Non government organisations. It has passed over the Out of Home Care work to these organisations, so essentially the organisations find carers for kids who cant live at home with their families. These organisations sometimes do not have the best screening processes, there have been well documented cases of them hiring paedophiles as foster carers and not responding to "abuse in care" allegations. It is in these organisations best interests to have as many fosters carers as possible, as they are paid per foster carer. It is also not in their best interests to lose foster carers or be seen to be hiring carers who are not appropriate so alot of these cases are swept under the carpet.
    The reason DOCS made this move was to try and give them more time to investigate the reports that are coming in. However each time a report comes in it is given a level- so some require immediate action, some 48 hours, some 72 hours and some a week, others no response "information only" meaning the report is kept on database and if more reports come in about a child that previous report can help to add weight to the new report.
    Then once report is deemed in need of action it is sent to local DOCS office and again it is prioritised.
    Many of the DOCS offices have permanent vacancies for caseworkers as it is a very stressful job, with high caseloads and not many happy endings.
    Sorry for the essay but this issue really is important to me.

    Solutions: We need money to tackle this issue. Money to fund campaigns about respecting children as individuals. Money to fund outreach support to young mothers, mothers with mental health issues, mothers who have been in the system themselves as kids. More caseworkers with smaller caseloads to allow them time to visit families at least once a week. Money for a government department to oversee Out of Home Care not non-govt organisations (sure government can also have corruption but I believe it would be scrutinised more than non-govt); foster carers to be given adequate training before having children placed with them. This includes kinship care arrangements- this is because it is not parenting "normal" children but children who have been subjected to trauma. They need to be parented in a reparative way. All children in care to receive counselling and extra supports at school as often there are learning difficulties, especially for the ones who have never attended school.
    I could write more but will stop now.

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  13. #18
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    I think weve all heard stories of welfare missing the mark or children whom have been mistreated by the system that is their to protect them. Which is very very sad.

    I can only speak professionally about child safety and welfare but I can assure anyone that the children and the cases that I consult on are very much justified in being in the care of welfare and in most cases the families or parents are very much welcomed by child safety to be included in my consultations to achieve the goals in the case plans I help write and the enfisis is always on reunification with the biological parents in some way, perhaps not always full time care but even visitation. Im yet to see a child whom I believe welfare not to acting upon his or her best interest. Trust me I dont work for welfare I consult to them as a third party so it is within my jurisdiction to say whether or not I feel the child would thrive in any environment with or without the biological families.

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  15. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modafinilguy View Post
    In the cases I have mentioned, except the one where I speak of the kid's being "nearly removed" (from the mother of the woman I live with), well the removal of the children was INITIALLY justified.

    However in the largest case I have been involved with, such a multitude of blatantly false exaggerated information, supposedly "factual", was presented to the courts that despite the mother completely ceasing her drug use, and the children having aged to the teenage years the order was extended until they were 18. I feel this very likely would not have been the case, if the information presented to the court not significantly wrong and false. I absolutely KNOW the information was false and wrong (a great amount of it), because not only did I read all the information that was presented to the courts, I was a direct witness in the situation- the only reliable, adult witness (the others were the children and drug addicted mother). I was directly present, the information was false.

    As a result of the "seriousness" that was presented of the situation, a significantly exaggerated perception of the risk of harm was created, the teenage children were continually forced away (with physical force via police) from the families residence and they were forced back into care. These children experienced significant abuse at various times in care, and became dangerously depressed and suicidal by being forced against their will into care, including up to the age of 17. They were exposed to serious danger from constantly running away from care, and having to stay in dangerous environments to evade the police. I mentioned in my post one of the girls was raped while running away, well the same thing happened a couple of years later happened to her younger sister while she was running away from care.

    The social workers had a serious attitude against the mother, I suspect due to personal reasons, and the fact she was a former prostitute and had chronic drug addiction problems. It is obvious to me, that the basic mentality was "we are doing the right thing, create the necessary information to justify the removal of the children". It was obvious to me, being a first hand account of what actually happened, that significant and dramatic bias accumulated in the information present as fact. Indeed I would go as far as to say that I am certain that in various specific cases, evidence was in effect manufactured, to support what they BELIEVED to be true.

    In regards to your statements. You may very well be in a different state (likely). I do not know anything about Child Protection other than in South Australia. I have experienced significant variability in regards to many processes involved in child protection, and your experience may very well be different from mine. But most certainly the youth have suffered significant abuse while in care (as an overall statement of their experience). I am speaking about 6 specific youth.

    It is my strong opinion that in a significant amount of instances Child Protection has demonstrated flawed and dangerous judgment in regards to the reality of these children's situation to which I have been referring, and inappropriate reactions to their situations. I have also witnessed a general incompetence.

    The children themselves, many of whom are now adult, absolutely believe (I am very close to them) that various powers used by Child Protection in the handling of their situations, and various abuse and trauma they have endured are absolutely wrong. They harbor massive resentment and distrust towards the Child Protection department involved. I can also state that they have developed a general distrust of government, and do not trust professional psychologists to get help from, because they believe information they provide will be refereed to Child Protection and misrepresented against the situation. The youth have specifically avoiding getting psychological treatment for this reason, despite the fact they have serious emotional difficulties from their experiences, and likely suffer Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other potential disorders. They do not trust psychologists.

    My biggest problem that I have observed with Child Protection (well actually I could probably list some other big problems), but one big problem I have is the quality of the information the stack up against "abusers".

    You most certainly do not have to believe what I say, and you are welcome to suspect me of being the most depraved predator, but I can assure you from various experience I know that various false information and accusations can occur, sometimes in a significant amount. I have personally been FALSELY accused of things that have caused me great psychological distress, and I am not willing to be more specific than to say that "serious sexual behavior allegations" were made against me, not just once but several. All of these were absolutely and entirely false. Indeed I would actually be happy if the police came and arrested me, and tried to use the information that Child Protection sated against me to charge me. In a court of law, I am most certain, I can clearly demonstrate that the accusations are clearly false. Besides having various evidence which completely contradicts the reality of some of the specific allegations, I have the very powerful voice of of 7 young people (mostly adults now) and I can tell you are willing to strongly assert that there is absolutely no reality to the accusations that were made, and not only that but that they have the uttermost trust and love in me, that I have been of absolute critical importance in their lives, and that I am entirely trustworthy. I have cared for many of these children and young teenagers for many years in total. They have always treated entirely appropriately, indeed with the strongest tolerance, understanding and compassion.

    In regards to the accusations against me, I also have other independent adult witnesses that will state that various allegations against me are utterly false. I have ample evidence of the children's trust and positive affections towards me, a whole heap of very emotional poems, a 50 page book made for me by one of the children when she was 11, and a variety of other items.

    They were once kids and couldn't be heard but they are old and smart enough now to stand up for me, I know they would not hesitate to do so. I have the backing and absolute confidence of a wide variety of people, teachers and people with degree's in psychology, various young mothers, and the 7 youth I have been involved with since young children, that as I have said have mostly reached adulthood. These accusations have not been kept secret among my supporters and the youth, and I can tell you it absolutely believed and accepted by them that the allegations are entirely false and indeed that it is ridiculous they were ever made.

    If it were not for bias, maliciously provided information, and flaws in the quality of the methods used to gather and ascertain "evidence" the accusations would never have occurred. The accusations, besides having drastic destructive effects on my mental well being, deprived these youth for various years having me as a support person, and indeed being able to live with me, but rather forced to be unwilling in state care, in places such as "Residential Care Units", which I can assure you have many aspects open to fair and serious criticism.

    Thankfully, there is nothing further Child Protection can do anymore, and the youth are all now able to have me in their lives. Indeed Child Protection no longer has the capacity to interfere with my involvement in supporting various young people and children in the current situation.

    You are welcome to believe what you want, but I am absolutely assert, that what I experienced in terms of the attacks upon my character were entirely wrong, not justified, and certainly not in the interest of the children.

    If you have read this, thanks for your time.
    Welcome to BH

    It seems that you have quite a tainted one sided view of CP and Resi Care. Whilst I respect your opinion, having have extensive experience with DHS, Child Protection and Residential Care facilities myself, I cannot really agree with many of your opinions.

    I can say that through my experience, the involvement of CP is most certainly warranted.

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  17. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakois View Post
    Welcome to BH

    It seems that you have quite a tainted one sided view of CP and Resi Care. Whilst I respect your opinion, having have extensive experience with DHS, Child Protection and Residential Care facilities myself, I cannot really agree with many of your opinions.

    I can say that through my experience, the involvement of CP is most certainly warranted.
    I have to agree. I have worked with foster kids and never met one who I thought should be home. In fact reunification seems to always be the goal and the emphasis even in situations when this isn't what would be best.

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