+ Reply to Thread
Page 19 of 25 FirstFirst ... 91718192021 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 243
  1. #181
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    10,012
    Thanks
    14,124
    Thanked
    7,612
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    100 Posts in a week
    Indonesia is not a signatory of the Refugee convention, refugees are supposed to claim in the first safe place to do so, Indonesia is NOT a safe place to claim asylum. I wonder why this is so difficult to grasp?

    According to the Migration Act, there is only a distinction between 'lawful non-citizens'(with visa) and 'unlawful non-citizens'(without visa). Unlawful doesn't mean illegal, as it is not a crime to arrive in Australia without a visa.
    Last edited by beebs; 01-06-2013 at 13:01.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to beebs For This Useful Post:

    Lillynix  (16-06-2013),orlyon  (03-06-2013)

  3. #182
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked
    267
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    This is from Parliament Australia, there is no conspiracy Father, there is no secrets -the fact is that the world is becoming more unstable every day, there are MORE wars now than there were a few years ago. Syria, Lebanon, Egypt etc. I suggest you need to do more reading on the subject.

    You claim to know so much, but clearly don't know much at all and want everyone else to do the research for you.
    The UNHCR figures show an increase of 8% globally. So I am not disagreeing with what you have said above.

    BUT, Australian figures have increased by 36%. That is quite a disproportionate increase and cannot be explained by external factors.

  4. #183
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,603
    Thanks
    126
    Thanked
    267
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Indonesia is not a signatory of the Refugee convention, refugees are supposed to claim in the first safe place to do so, Indonesia is NOT a safe place to claim asylum. I wonder why this is so difficult to grasp?

    According to the Migration Act, there is only a distinction between 'lawful non-citizens'(with visa) and 'unlawful non-citizens'(without visa). Unlawful doesn't mean illegal, as it is not a crime to arrive in Australia without a visa.
    Indonesia is not a safe place? Will they still be persecuted by the people they were fleeing? Through which others countries did they travel to get to Indonesia? Were none of them 'safe'?

    Unlawful doesn't mean illegal? Would you care to attempt to define how you interpret the word 'unlawful'?
    Last edited by Father; 01-06-2013 at 13:41.

  5. #184
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,691
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Indonesia is not a safe place? Will they still be persecuted by the people they were fleeing? Through which others countries did they travel to get to Indonesia? Were none of them 'safe'?

    Unlawful doesn't mean illegal? Would you care to attempt to define how you interpret the word 'unlawful'?
    I get what you're saying father. It's hard for people to understand how someone fleeing persecution can go through 2-3 countries on their way to Australia and none of them can provide a safe haven from their persecution.

    I'm not using the UNHCR refugee signatory definition. My definition of being safe involves someone fleeing being fed, clothed, sheltered and free from the persecution they are fleeing. And I can't believe none of the countries transited on their way through to Australia provide that.

    I understand why families do it,why they keep travelling until they get to country number 3.... they want the best life for their kids. But I can understand why some Australians think those that arrive here via boats are country shopping.

  6. #185
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,272
    Thanks
    946
    Thanked
    1,022
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I get what you're saying father. It's hard for people to understand how someone fleeing persecution can go through 2-3 countries on their way to Australia and none of them can provide a safe haven from their persecution.

    I'm not using the UNHCR refugee signatory definition. My definition of being safe involves someone fleeing being fed, clothed, sheltered and free from the persecution they are fleeing. And I can't believe none of the countries transited on their way through to Australia provide that.

    I understand why families do it,why they keep travelling until they get to country number 3.... they want the best life for their kids. But I can understand why some Australians think those that arrive here via boats are country shopping.
    I think we must have different definitions of safe. Two of the countries surrounding Afghanistan I wouldn't deem 'safe.' Iran... Pakistan. Pakistan may be 'safer' but they still have extensive problems with Al Qaeda. I don't know much about conditions of countries to the north or if people flee that way. I do know Afghanistan has extensive rough terrain and would assume some areas are fairly impossible to flee through (also the worry of Al Qaeda). US military actually trains at the marine base outside my hometown specifically because of its similarity to the conditions and terrain in Afghanistan. I can tell you, it'd be pretty rough terrain to tackle and try to escape through!

    Sri Lanka is an island, close to India, so no real 'borders.' India is not a country that rings 'safe' in my mind.

    Iraq borders Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan. The first three countries are again countries that are either suffering their own conflicts or have human rights worries.

    Again, none of us are asylum seekers. We do not know their circumstances or the time and resources available to them.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 01-06-2013 at 17:06.

  7. #186
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    my house
    Posts
    17,710
    Thanks
    1,392
    Thanked
    7,295
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 postsRuby Star - 15,000 posts
    When these people go to countries that aren't signatories, they have no rights at all. That is why they don't stay.

    However, I think father wants us to say that it must be the free accommodation, more money than pensioners, free tv, etc. basically the red carpet treatment!

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BigRedV For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (01-06-2013),Kirst33  (01-06-2013),sockstealingpoltergeist  (03-06-2013)

  9. #187
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,272
    Thanks
    946
    Thanked
    1,022
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    When these people go to countries that aren't signatories, they have no rights at all. That is why they don't stay.
    Thank you for this insight!

    ETA: Also, just because a country is a signatory doesn't deem it 'safe.' Iran and Syria are both signatories.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 01-06-2013 at 17:09.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Kirst33 For This Useful Post:

    sockstealingpoltergeist  (03-06-2013)

  11. #188
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,183
    Thanks
    3,664
    Thanked
    4,704
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Past Moderator - Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Indonesia is not a safe place? Will they still be persecuted by the people they were fleeing? Through which others countries did they travel to get to Indonesia? Were none of them 'safe'?
    Yes, they will still be persecuted and are still at risk in Indonesia or Malaysia.
    Watch Back to Where You Came from, it explains this.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Busy-Bee For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (01-06-2013)

  13. #189
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,272
    Thanks
    946
    Thanked
    1,022
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    I just found this when searching if its illegal to seek asylum:

    'Asylum seekers who enter Australia without a valid visa by boat or plane are not illegal. They are permitted to enter without prior authorisation because this right is protected by Article 31 of the 1951 Refugee Convention which recognises they have good cause for entering without a visa.

    'No offence under Australian law criminalises the act of arriving in Australia without a valid visa for the purposes of seeking asylum.'

    http://www.asrc.org.au/media/documen...eek-asylum.pdf

    Edit: 'The allegation that boat arrivals are not genuine in their appeals for protection from persecution is untrue. In any one year since the late 1990s, between 70 and 97 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat have been found to be refugees and granted protection. The average in recent years is closer to 90 per cent.'
    Last edited by Kirst33; 01-06-2013 at 15:50.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Kirst33 For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (01-06-2013)

  15. #190
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    12,708
    Thanks
    9,558
    Thanked
    12,691
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 9/1/15Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 7/11/14Busiest Member of the Week - week ended 3/10/14100 Posts in a week
    Well I was actually going to watch the go back to where you came from thing tonight but my computer has crapped itself.

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to VicPark For This Useful Post:

    BigRedV  (01-06-2013)


 

Similar Threads

  1. Seeking others in the same boat!
    By luckybuba in forum Non-IVF fertility assistance
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 28-07-2012, 23:34

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Fridge-To-Go Australasia
Xmas with a NEW Fridge-to-go Lunch Bag! Fridge-To-Go Australasia
Fridge-to-go 8 hour cooler bags are ideal under the Christmas tree! Now in modern lunch bag designs - fill them with toys and chocolate to make parents and kids happy! Stay super cool and eat healthy and fresh food all summer long!
sales & new stuffsee all
Bub Hub Sales Listing
HAVING A SALE? Let parents know about it with a Bub Hub Sales listing. Listings are featured on our well trafficked Sales Page + selected randomly to appear on EVERY page
featured supporter
Baby Car Seats and Infant Car Restraints
Buying a baby car seat? Check out our 'go-to' links here!
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!