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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    We're only seeing what we want though. In my mind, the hairdresser was probably thinking she's being polite by letting her feed in peace and just walked away without thinking, and when questioned said it's for privacy, in her mind the mothers privacy to feed in peace, really innocently you know? Then a clients come in, the mothers still feeding so she thought she'll start on them, and when shes finshed they've thought oh she's busy now, do you want this person to finish it? And this mother has arked up and been a royal bi!tch about it. You know, when you paint the picture for other people to make them into villains, its unfair because really, you don't know what happened or what they were thinking. Not everything is done with malice or intent. Her reaction is on her aswell.
    This could well have been the case. If so, the hairdresser could have said something and avoided the whole mess. As I said above, lack of communication + ignorance= something that looks a lot like discrimination, you know?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    This could well have been the case. If so, the hairdresser could have said something and avoided the whole mess. As I said above, lack of communication + ignorance= something that looks a lot like discrimination, you know?
    Sounds like both sides could have handled it better. I don't think it would meet the discrimination threshold IMO anyway. She wasn't asked to leave or cover up or any of those things. I can't believe she bothered going to the media over it.

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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Everything I have read says the hairdresser walked away without a word- I've not read the salon deny this?? If you have, please could you provide a link?
    I have read commentary from both the mother and the salon. I'm a bit confused- if the mother is telling the truth, which thus far, the salon has confirmed, then how is she painting anyone as anything? She has described the actions of the hairdresser and salon (as confirmed by the salon) and how it made her feel (which is subjective and we are not in a position to tell her she "felt the wrong way" iykwim). Why should she try to make them sound better? There is no onus on her to do so. So far, the salon has not denied the incident and all the owner has said was she left her to breastfeed and that it was her personal choice to do so, and that he himself has cut hair while a mother bf'd her child.
    Also, why are you allowed to make assumptions (like that it was a safety issue, that it was not discriminatory, that the mother was rude and obnoxious, that the junior was more than capable of finishing the cut, that the mother is of bad character- just to name a few things you've said) but when I give an opinion based on what all the articles say and what the legislation says, you tell me I wasn't there and wouldn't know?? Unless there's something you're not telling us, you also weren't there!
    My main point is, to DENY someone a service because they are breastfeeding is indeed considered discrimination. I would have a much easier time believing this was not such an incident if the hairdresser had said "I can't cut your hair while you bf due to OH&S" as opposed to nothing at all, followed by "privacy reasons" when questioned.
    Exactly what I said. I wasn't there, you weren't there, we're seeing it the way we want to see it and it's a he said/she said, neither you or I are right because neither of us know what really happened. Yes the salon admitted to walking away from her, and admitted it was miscommunication. Her service wasn't great, but this hairdresser doesn't need to be made into a villain over it either and that's what people are doing, calling her shi!t and whatever else has been said. I did say she could of said something, they both could of, the situation could of been handled alot better. And I disagree, you are not entitled to whatever you want while you're feeding your baby, if someone wants to stop touching you, they have a right to do so. Your needs or feelings don't trump someone else's. That's just selfish.

  5. #124
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    I just ran the scenario past DH (who litigates for a living) and he thought it would come very close to actual discrimination, so there you go. I'm catching up with a group of friends tomorrow including a partner in employment law so might ask her. Now I'm really curious. You don't need to ask someone to stop or leave or cover up to technically discriminate - refusing to perform the service is also potentially discrimination.

    Learn something new everyday

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I just ran the scenario past DH (who litigates for a living) and he thought it would come very close to actual discrimination, so there you go. I'm catching up with a group of friends tomorrow including a partner in employment law so might ask her. Now I'm really curious. You don't need to ask someone to stop or leave or cover up to technically discriminate - refusing to perform the service is also potentially discrimination.

    Learn something new everyday
    Refusing to serve them food or a coffee, but you can't force someone to keep touching you.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    And I disagree, you are not entitled to whatever you want while you're feeding your baby, if someone wants to stop touching you, they have a right to do so. Your needs or feelings don't trump someone else's. That's just selfish.
    Just on this- you can't disagree with me saying this because this is not what I said. I said denying someone service solely on the grounds that they are breastfeeding is illegal. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it, this is the law. She could have refused to cut her hair on the grounds of potential safety hazards but she did not. She said nothing, and then said she did so for "privacy" which may have been something she genuinely thought she should do, or may have been because she felt uncomfortable herself. I lean towards discomfort personally, because she didn't say anything to the mum. And she is certainly allowed to feel discomfort, that is her right. What is not her right, though, is taking out her discomfort on another person. Her feelings, in this case, do not trump the mothers rights.

    From https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-...law/legalright -

    Under the federal Sex Discrimination Act 1984 it is illegal in Australia to discriminate against a person either directly or indirectly on the grounds of breastfeeding. Direct discrimination happens when a person treats someone less favourably than another person. For example, it is discriminatory for a waiter to decline to serve a patron who is breastfeeding.

    Do you see what I'm getting at?

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  9. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Refusing to serve them food or a coffee, but you can't force someone to keep touching you.
    I'm not sure why you're phrasing it like that, but if you have engaged a service person to perform a service, they cannot deny you that service because you are breastfeeding, be it a foot massage or a cup of coffee. The law says you cannot treat anyone less favourably because they are breastfeeding. You can't tell them to stop, to move, to cover or that you won't serve them. It's simple.

  10. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I just ran the scenario past DH (who litigates for a living) and he thought it would come very close to actual discrimination, so there you go. I'm catching up with a group of friends tomorrow including a partner in employment law so might ask her. Now I'm really curious. You don't need to ask someone to stop or leave or cover up to technically discriminate - refusing to perform the service is also potentially discrimination.

    Learn something new everyday
    Yes, this is what I'm trying (perhaps badly!) to say. I don't know, of course, if this was the intent of the hairdresser, but it is indeed what it appears to be, you know?

  11. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Just on this- you can't disagree with me saying this because this is not what I said. I said denying someone service solely on the grounds that they are breastfeeding is illegal. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with it, this is the law. She could have refused to cut her hair on the grounds of potential safety hazards but she did not. She said nothing, and then said she did so for "privacy" which may have been something she genuinely thought she should do, or may have been because she felt uncomfortable herself. I lean towards discomfort personally, because she didn't say anything to the mum. And she is certainly allowed to feel discomfort, that is her right. What is not her right, though, is taking out her discomfort on another person. Her feelings, in this case, do not trump the mothers rights.

    From https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-...law/legalright -

    Under the federal Sex Discrimination Act 1984 it is illegal in Australia to discriminate against a person either directly or indirectly on the grounds of breastfeeding. Direct discrimination happens when a person treats someone less favourably than another person. For example, it is discriminatory for a waiter to decline to serve a patron who is breastfeeding.

    Do you see what I'm getting at?
    I do know what the law says, but it's open to interpretation and each individual circumstance. She said privacy, I gave an example of what she may have meant regarding that. I gave my interpretation, you gave yours, but we don't know exactly what her reasons of privacy meant. And offering service in this case I would say anyone who has to touch you, can refuse at any time to stop, without reason. It's also their right, and who's rights trump in this case? The person being forced to touch someone they don't want to. The mother wasn't told to get out, stop feeding, move, cover up, and she was still offered service when she finished feeding. All that wasn't good enough for her. fml

  12. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Yes, this is what I'm trying (perhaps badly!) to say. I don't know, of course, if this was the intent of the hairdresser, but it is indeed what it appears to be, you know?
    I don't think intent matters.

    Having said all that - I still wouldn't go to the media over something like that as it's not black and white.

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