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  1. #511
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    I really just want to say that this thread has been so informative, and considering the way abortion threads usually go everyone has been so respectful of others opinions - well mostly except a few edited posts. It has been a good discussion for such a sensitive topic.

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  3. #512
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    Yes, basically this.

    There are two main types of people in this debate. Those who believe women should have say over their uterus, and those that believe they shouldn't have a choice.




    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    I have read this thread and all the stories and links posted. It hasn't changed my mind at all.

    LTA is horrible necessity in a very small percentage of pregnancies.

    I don't need to understand another womans reasoning to know that it isn't my business to tell her what to do with her body. Full stop.

    I only hope that women in this country continue to receive the opportunity to make choices for their reproductive health. Which includes abortion even LTA when and if it is needed.

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    onionskin  (03-05-2013)

  5. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I tend to think of this article in a different way.
    1) I don't believe having the option to abort will necessarily stop abuse down the track....it didn't in the case in the story as the dropkick mother didn't take up that option.

    2) I can't reconcile the logic that killing a baby in utero is OK as it *may* prevent abuse down the track. I mean killing V possible abuse/disability.... That's like saying a 2013 BMW is a worse car than a 1978 Datsun 120Y.

    3) And I cant believe 1 case of abuse is reason enough to justify killing millions of healthy babies that likely would not have been abused if they lived. Not when there are theoretically other options:
    - birth control that can't be stuffed up should be free (shots in the arm, tubes being tied). I mean 4 unplanned pregnancies,what a fu@tard.
    - long stays in hospital after giving birth, with better support for mothers (counsellIng, parenting classes etc). None of this trying to push new mums out in 6 hours cr@p that my friend went through.
    - better follow up care when a new mum returns home. I got one visit from a clinic nurse when I had bub, that was it.
    - there should be more resources for child protection services. They didn't have their kid for 18 months then took her back. Big red flag! ....should have been weekly visits from child welfare for the first 5 years.
    - family and friends shouldn't be afraid to stick their nose in someone else's business when the welfare of a kid is involved.

    Just an FYI - I became pregnant whilst on Implanon....ended in an early m/c, but just saying its possible while using bc.

  6. #514
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    For the ones who are thinking rainbow and lollipops and are against legalised terminations.

    -A study has found that abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal

    -47 0000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008

    - 8.5 million had serious medical complications

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1215045.html

    I cannot believe that anyone would be ok with going back to those days.



    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    People don't like to think too deeply about the true logistics of your scenario. Like adoption is just sooo easy to deal with, for both birth parent and child. It is easier to think of the rainbows and lollipops.

    Beebs I think this would be a great spin off.

  7. #515
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    My friend did too, they forgot to put the little thing in the cartridge that stops you getting pregnant. She got pregnant, had a missed m/c and developed sepsis and almost died.

    Quote Originally Posted by littleduck View Post
    Just an FYI - I became pregnant whilst on Implanon....ended in an early m/c, but just saying its possible while using bc.

  8. #516
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    Beebs I have been thinking more about you question.

    I actually think if abortions were banned, and women were forced to birth babies they didn't want that our health/social welfare systems would not be able to cope. They don't cope now, how many kids miss out on being loved and cherished becasue lets face it, they are not all going to be adopted out. Some will stay with a parent that isn't able to cope, putting them in unsafe, horrendous conditions - think of the stories we all hear of neglect.

    Adoption is not easy. Not everyone will see the merits of it. Some people will keep children they shouldn't have. Not everyone is a good person or parent. Not every baby is wanted, unfortunately this is a sad fact.

    I love lollipops and rainbows as much as the next person, but I don't ever want mine or my daughters choices taken away.

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  10. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    For the ones who are thinking rainbow and lollipops and are against legalised terminations.

    -A study has found that abortion rates are higher in countries where the procedure is illegal

    -47 0000 women died from unsafe abortions in 2008

    - 8.5 million had serious medical complications

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1215045.html

    I cannot believe that anyone would be ok with going back to those days.
    Some countries where abortion is illegal also have a culture where it is embedded that it is wrong to use birth control (Latin American countries and Catholicism).

    I'm not disagreeing with your argument just pointing out that those countries have a myriad of birth control and education problems so therefore have many unwanted pregnancies and obviously a backwards view on then what to about unwanted pregnancies as a result of not believing in birth control.

    Kind of a Catch-22, a culture that doesn't allow abortion or birth control but then has many unwanted pregnancies resulting in abortion because they don't believe in birth control...

    I definitely understand that pregnancy can happen on BC but that is the exception rather than the rule, in general BC prevents many pregnancies.

    This whole debate has turned me from thinking I'm pro-choice to thinking I must be more pro-life to back to pro-choice!
    Last edited by Kirst33; 03-05-2013 at 10:56.

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    beebs  (03-05-2013)

  12. #518
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    In some catholic countries, like Ireland, women go to England to have terminations.

    In 2011, there were 6,151 abortions to women resident outside England and Wales, compared with 6,535 in 2010. Principally, these non-residents were from Northern Ireland (16%) and the Irish Republic (67%).

    If it were illegal here, women would go to NZ, or wherever else it was legal. Except those who couldn't afford it - and then backyard abortions would come back.

    Re contraception, I would say it is more common than people realise. I used a condom with my boyfriend, it broke. I went straight out and got the morning after pill and after 13 hours was violently ill. I called the doctor and he said it had been in my system for so long that it would have definitely worked, it didn't. I came around to the idea of being pregnant and felt like it was fated, after all, I did do everything I could to avoid it. And then I got rubella and ended up terminating on the recommendation made by doctors. Rubella in the first month of pregnancy usually causes the baby to die, if the baby had survived it would have a 90% chance of severe and multiple deformaties and disabilities.

    It was the hardest decision I have ever made in my life, and it broke me up. I felt really devastated for years about it. I hardly every talk about it. But I am SO sick of hearing all this Pro life crap. Unless you have been in a situation like that you just have no effing idea. There have been references on here about how 'easy' it is etc. And in my experience and others who have been through it, it is not easy. It is not a walk in the park, it is devastating and scary and horrible.

    Sometimes you can really be doing everything by the book, the only way you can be 100% guaranteed not to get pregnant is abstinence and hysterectomy.

    My feelings now, is there is no way I could cope with another pregnancy. I am seriously considering a hysterectomy, because I just don't trust contraception. And even vasectomies have a fail rate of one in a thousand, and knowing my luck...


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Some countries where abortion is illegal also have a culture where it is embedded that it is wrong to use birth control (Latin American countries and Catholicism, so more unwanted pregnancies).

    I'm not disagreeing with your argument just pointing out that those countries have a myriad of birth control and education problems.

    I definitely understand that pregnancy can happen on BC but that is the exception rather than the rule, in general BC prevents many pregnancies.

    This whole debate has turned me from thinking I'm pro-choice to thinking I must be more pro-life to back to pro-choice!
    Last edited by beebs; 03-05-2013 at 11:08.

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  14. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    In some catholic countries, like Ireland, women go to England to have terminations.

    In 2011, there were 6,151 abortions to women resident outside England and Wales, compared with 6,535 in 2010. Principally, these non-residents were from Northern Ireland (16%) and the Irish Republic (67%).

    If it were illegal here, women would go to NZ, or wherever else it was legal. Except those who couldn't afford it - and then backyard abortions would come back.

    Re contraception, I would say it is more common than people realise. I used a condom with my boyfriend, it broke. I went straight out and got the morning after pill and after 13 hours was violently ill. I called the doctor and he said it had been in my system for so long that it would have definitely worked, it didn't. I came around to the idea of being pregnant and felt like it was fated, after all, I did do everything I could to avoid it. And then I got rubella and ended up terminating on the recommendation made by doctors.

    Sometimes you can really be doing everything by the book, the only way you can be 100% guaranteed not to get pregnant is abstinence and hysterectomy.

    My feelings now, is there is no way I could cope with another pregnancy. I am seriously considering a hysterectomy, because I just don't trust contraception. And even vasectomies have a fail rate of one in a thousand, and knowing my luck...
    What an awful experience beebs!

    I don't think abortion should be illegal, just pointing out the irony that some of countries that oppose abortions and have high rates also have a strong cultural opposition to birth control.

    I know birth control can fail but also think its still obviously a great tool at our disposal. Abstinence is a great ideology but not full proof as people make mistakes (especially young people) or an abstinent girl could be raped. Bristol Palin is an example of a young girl practicing abstinence but then making a mistake one night and ending up pregnant. My belief is practice abstinence all you want, that's great, but be on the pill or carry a condom as a backup plan!

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  16. #520
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    **beebs** think you edited your post while I was replying.

    I completely agree with you. It is the most difficult decision one ever has to make and I get p*ssed off when I hear people referring to it as the 'easy way out.' Also the answer that people support it but would never do it themselves, because quite honestly you have no idea what you will do until you are put in the decision.

    I always said I was pro-choice but would never have an abortion myself, I feel this belief stemmed from the fact that I truly believed I would never be stupid enough to find myself in the situation of getting pregnant accidentally.

    I went to London to visit a boyfriend I was in love with. We'd met 5 months earlier when he did a ski season in the states and fell for each other instantly. He left after 4 weeks because his visa was up and he was going to live in London for a couple years. Four months later I had saved enough money to go visit him. We loved each other but wondered if when we saw each other we still would. I got pregnant two weeks into my trip. I can remember exactly when it happened as its the one time we were stupid and naive enough to think we could get away with not using a condom.

    We had now probably been together 6 months but apart for about 4 of those months. I could go home and have the baby, but we would most likely break up, there was no way for him to get another visa to the states since he had just used one. He's a good guy, I'm sure he would have tried to visit but I essentially would have been on my own. I was so ashamed, embarrassed, frightened, etc. Petrified to tell my parents and disappoint them. In London you get put on a waiting list to have a termination so it was about 3-4 weeks from when I found out until I got an appointment. They did an ultrasound, I was 7 wks 3 days (a couple years later i wrote to the clinic for a copy of my scan and I still have it). I battled with my choice for those weeks and still went in not 100% certain it was what I wanted but at the time I genuinely felt it was my only choice. Since then I have battled with severe depression and guilt because I have had such a hard time coming to terms with my decision and if it was right. It was not the easier way out, it was a different way in trying to determine what was best for myself and DH at the time. You can only make your decisions based on the knowledge and feelings you have at a particular moment in time.

    It is of course easy to look back in hindsight or judge and say I could have gone home, but until you're in the shoes of somebody who is genuinely frightened and scared you don't know what decision you would make.

    I am now happily married to this man and we have had a baby girl that we love immensely but died in-utero. I'd be lying if I said it hasn't crossed my mind that she died because I am being punished for choices I made 10 years ago.

    I know if I had gone home I would not be married to my husband now and I would never have had my precious little Clem who, even though I only had her for 20 weeks, I am so grateful that I had her and she existed.

    I don't know if I regret it, it's hard to say I do because my life would be so different now and I have no way of knowing if I would have been ok had the story turned out differently. What I know I regret is letting myself get pregnant.

    I'm do believe in protecting a women's right to choose but I am really passionate about doing whatever possible to prevent unwanted pregnancies and help ensure that the choice never has to be made when it comes to accidental pregnancies.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 03-05-2013 at 11:58.

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