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  1. #441
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    I don't know that there are 'laws' which govern neonatal intervention? The guidelines for neonatologists are usually 24 weeks or 500gm but I thought they were best practice guidelines and decisions from hospital ethics boards rather than law?

    Irrespective of intervention, births after 20 weeks are supposed to be registered and issued with a birth certificate, but they are not if they are the by-product of an abortion. So now the baby only 'exists' as a person if it was wanted by the parents?

    It also doesn't really matter to me if there was only one proven to be after 26 weeks, that's one too many in my world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    In Victoria a dr will deny a baby medical intervention until 24 weeks. It's the law for them to not try to save a baby until 24 weeks gestation no matter how the baby arrives (ie premature labor). So besides your 26 week example, the state of Victoria (and I assume other states) will not try to save any baby before 24 weeks as that is when they are considered viable.
    So in a baby under the 24 weeks with a mother that doesn't want it, what would happen to the child? well I know, but is it left in a crib to pass? I'm trying to be sensitive but don't know how else to word it.

    LTA is a very taboo subject and rarely spoken about in depth so I don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    So in a baby under the 24 weeks with a mother that doesn't want it, what would happen to the child? well I know, but is it left in a crib to pass? I'm trying to be sensitive but don't know how else to word it.

    LTA is a very taboo subject and rarely spoken about in depth so I don't know.
    I assume it is. From stories in my pregnancy loss books, the babies that survived birth usually passed very quickly (ie tried to take a couple breaths and then gone). If the mother doesn't want to hold them then I am sure the midwife just takes them away, I highly doubt they are cruel or disrespectful to them.

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    I assume it is. From stories in my pregnancy loss books, the babies that survived birth usually passed very quickly (ie tried to take a couple breaths and then gone). If the mother doesn't want to hold them then I am sure the midwife just takes them away, I highly doubt they are cruel or disrespectful to them.
    My mum is a midwife and trust me the midwives would give the baby lots and lots cuddles, and probably shed a tear. I know my mother used to say even the most hardened-seen-it-all midwives would get tears when a baby passed, no matter how many they'd cared for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyfishie View Post
    I don't know that there are 'laws' which govern neonatal intervention? The guidelines for neonatologists are usually 24 weeks or 500gm but I thought they were best practice guidelines and decisions from hospital ethics boards rather than law?

    Irrespective of intervention, births after 20 weeks are supposed to be registered and issued with a birth certificate, but they are not if they are the by-product of an abortion. So now the baby only 'exists' as a person if it was wanted by the parents?

    It also doesn't really matter to me if there was only one proven to be after 26 weeks, that's one too many in my world.
    From my knowledge of all the mothers in my support groups that lost their babies from premature deliveries, if the baby is younger than 24 weeks the drs will not intervene. A mother in my support group pregnant with her first baby after loosing her son to premature labor last year, they were scared she would go into labor early again and were trying to get her to 24 weeks at least so that they could take measures to save her baby if she did deliver. If he was born at 23 weeks they would do nothing. Fortunately she's now well past 24 weeks.

    You don't know the circumstances of the 26 week baby. If it was a medical termination for severe congenital abnormalities and although the baby may have survived birth it was not going to survive in the long-run. If that was the case the drs would have made the baby as comfortable as possible before it passed.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 02-05-2013 at 19:45.

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  7. #446
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    I'm going to hazard a guess after reading the Marie Stropes website that a LTA in the public sector involves a dose of medication to the fetus which causes cardiac arrest and then the woman is induced. Much like as someone mentioned earlier how one twin was mistakenly killed last year or the year before. Marie Stropes state on their website that it offers a surgical procedure done under IV sedation but I would say the fetus would be given the same medication.

    eta I doubt very much in the case of a LTA they would risk the fetus surviving the procedure.

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  9. #447
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Please be mindful of the fact that there are people who have had to make heartbreaking decisions for all sorts of reasons (or know people who have had to). There are also people on here from all areas and people of differing levels of knowledge.

    Some posts have been reported in this thread due to content, or intent of the post. In the interests of keeping it open to help educate others, please keep in mind those points.

    This thread has had a few people post differing facts regarding what may or may not happen in Australia in different states. Everybody's opinion is valid, and if facts are being posted, then it's important to check them before posting. In the same manner that it is important not to dismiss someone else's information before checking properly.

    Please keep posting continue posting in this thread respectful of the points above.

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    ChickyBee  (02-05-2013),Jellyfishie  (02-05-2013),Kirst33  (02-05-2013),LoveLivesHere  (02-05-2013)

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    As I'm nearly 42 and am nearing the end of my child-bearing life I've stopped thinking about this in terms of myself and more about my own daughters. My oldest is nearly 8. The thought of some monster impregnating her against her will when she's a teenager almost made me drive the car off the road today. If it happened, and she was too ashamed to tell me until it was too late, I would do whatever I could to make the hurt stop for her.

    When I think of it that way I guess I move back to pro choice without restriction. It's one thing to think about this theoretically, but once I think about my own girls I feel very differently.

    The post about the reality in Victoria was eye opening as this could be one of my daughters one day.

    HOF thank you for the information. I was told the same thing this morning by a person who has had direct contact with a woman who had a post 24 week LTA (a Dr at the hospital where it was performed).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    I assume it is. From stories in my pregnancy loss books, the babies that survived birth usually passed very quickly (ie tried to take a couple breaths and then gone). If the mother doesn't want to hold them then I am sure the midwife just takes them away, I highly doubt they are cruel or disrespectful to them.
    Distressing warning to people for this post I am about to write...

    My termination was twins. I said earlier one was born alive. I only know this because the first one was born grey colour. The second one was born pink and the midwife was talking to her. The midwife didn't tell me, but I could tell.

    I chose not to hold them, because I wanted to distance myself from what I had done. I do regret that now. I regret not saying sorry. I have photos given to me by the hospital, which I look at sometimes.

  13. #450
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    http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/...-lose-my-baby/

    'We were told our baby would have a 1 in 100 chance of survival – in Australia babies born before 24 weeks are not resuscitated because their quality of life is poor. If they survive, they have a 1 in 100 chance of being ‘in-tact’, meaning they will most likely have some minor movement and developmental problems requiring ongoing treatment, but they will not be severely disabled or developmentally delayed. At 23 weeks it was utterly hopeless.'

    I apologize, they won't resuscitate a baby before 24 weeks.
    Last edited by Kirst33; 02-05-2013 at 20:02.


 

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