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  1. #401
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    I still consider myself pro-choice. I simply don't believe that in ending her pregnancy a woman can insist her foetus be killed as part of the bargain.

    How this works practically is another matter I suppose. I realise I'm perhaps focussing too much on finding the theory and logic I'm comfortable with, without considering the real world.

  2. #402
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I know you didn't mean offence by this, but I'm kind of shocked you would even compare aborting for medical issues and aborting for gender. Sure in both cases the baby was wanted, but in the latter only a boy was wanted. terminating bc there is something seriously wrong with the baby or bc of a serious risk to the mother is totally different. You are sensible and I'm sure I don't need to break it down further than that, but they are nowhere in the the same basket, not even close
    I was asking because I fail to see how being prolife 'for life' can only apply to healthy fetuses. I did not bring up the mothers life being at risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I still consider myself pro-choice. I simply don't believe that in ending her pregnancy a woman can insist her foetus be killed as part of the bargain.
    Well asking that a breathing child have it's life ended outside of the womb (obviously for non medical reasons).... well I stand fast there. That IS murder. I'm so saddened by thinking of a woman ending a 19 week pg bc she's a girl. But I can acknowledge the pro choice stance, it isn't it's own entity. But once that baby is born... any rights she has are gone as the child is no longer in her body.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Well asking that a breathing child have it's life ended outside of the womb (obviously for non medical reasons).... well I stand fast there. That IS murder. I'm so saddened by thinking of a woman ending a 19 week pg bc she's a girl. But I can acknowledge the pro choice stance, it isn't it's own entity. But once that baby is born... any rights she has are gone as the child is no longer in her body.
    I agree.

    Most medical terminations from what I have read are because the child has a condition that is incompatible with life and will not survive, or will have to suffer too much pain and not live long. I don't think that can be compared to aborting a healthy child because of gender.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I still consider myself pro-choice. I simply don't believe that in ending her pregnancy a woman can insist her foetus be killed as part of the bargain.

    How this works practically is another matter I suppose. I realise I'm perhaps focussing too much on finding the theory and logic I'm comfortable with, without considering the real world.
    And I guess I thought I was pro choice until I understood that meant I couldn't put a time frame on it and as I couldn't stomach the idea of an otherwise healthy baby being aborted after it was viable, I understood that meant I am not pro choice. I am not pro life as I support abortion, up to a gestational point in time.

    As for what happens in a LTA (non medically required) after 24 or 25 weeks there seems to be no agreement. My focus isn't on the theory but what happens in real life (as hard as it is for me to stomach).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    Yup I agree. Especially knowing people with preemie babies at 25/26 weeks. It's a very hard ethical conundrum.
    After being in the nicu, seeing babes born at 23/4/5 weeks. What they go through, the trauma they must endure. Many have life long issues. If the parent doesn't want them? If they are saved against a parents wishes, then they'd just be abandoned.

    I had a 31 week prem and had my tubes tied during the section because my chances of having a micro prem ( and doing a lot of damage to myself) was extremely high. I couldn't handle the thought of putting a baby through that.


    I'm sorry if this offends.

  7. #407
    headoverfeet's Avatar
    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I support choice, but I disagree. from personal experience with a number of friends who have had terminations on paper there are rules. But in reality the need to have a reason is very very flexible and open to interpretation. Women are rarely denied an abortion and many are listed under 'mental health' when it's just a case of not wanting the child.

    Don't get me wrong, I support flexibility. But I don't believe it's true that we don't have bodily autonomy in regards to this subject. They are pretty easy to get even into the 2nd tri.
    Needing to provide a reason is really up to the GP you initially see, I was not question past am I sure this is the right choice. People I have spoken to have had to go from GP to GP to obtain a referral then there is the matter of affording one (mine was $500 cash) and accessibility to a clinic not everyone has the ability to pay travel and accommodation costs as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskittyfantastico View Post
    After being in the nicu, seeing babes born at 23/4/5 weeks. What they go through, the trauma they must endure. Many have life long issues. If the parent doesn't want them? If they are saved against a parents wishes, then they'd just be abandoned.

    I had a 31 week prem and had my tubes tied during the section because my chances of having a micro prem ( and doing a lot of damage to myself) was extremely high. I couldn't handle the thought of putting a baby through that.


    I'm sorry if this offends.
    It's not an easy issue at all is it. I guess it just comes down to how do you decide when a human life is deemed worth saving. It's a very complex issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    I agree.

    Most medical terminations from what I have read are because the child has a condition that is incompatible with life and will not survive, or will have to suffer too much pain and not live long. I don't think that can be compared to aborting a healthy child because of gender.
    Yet when you look at the statistical reasons behind LTA in America for example the main reasons given are not because of a medical condition with the foetus. They relate to things such as incorrect dates, fear of telling a partner or family, difficulty accessing abortion, or the mother wasn't actually aware she was pregnant.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Yet when you look at the statistical reasons behind LTA in America for example the main reasons given are not because of a medical condition with the foetus. They relate to things such as incorrect dates, fear of telling a partner or family, difficulty accessing abortion, or the mother wasn't actually aware she was pregnant.
    Then I find that very sad.


 

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