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  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    At the end of the day no matter how awful the vision is of how the procedures are preformed, A womans rights should never be taken away - even if she is pregant.

    You can go on about the procedure all you like, it doesn't convince me that a woman shouldn't have a right to choose what happens to her own body.
    Sorry I'm a bit behind and haven't read the last few pages. That being said I read this post and couldn't stop myself from replying.

    I find the notion that a womans rights should never be taken away to be absurd. Peoples rights are taken away all the time: society has deemed many things unacceptable and parliament has legislated accordingly. Women cant do whatever they want now. They cant walk down the the street nude, cant leave their baby in a car in 40 degree heat, cant pay a surrogate to carry a baby for them, can't ask someone to help them commit suicide...

    I don't think an act involving a woman's body should mean a free pass to do whatever. As with other things, if society deems something to be past the point of acceptable, then parliament should be able to legislate against it.

    I acknowledge however that despite my own personal views at the moment there isn't enough public support to ban abortion. I think I was disagreeing with the reasoning behind the argument if that makes sense.
    - no offense intended!

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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannawannabe View Post
    Victoria allows late term terminations up to 40 weeks.
    Its 24 weeks... http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/b...n_in_Australia


    Edit: sorry you're right, it is legal after but only for reasons two docs would find appropriate. Also very uncommon.

    'Abortion is legal in Victoria. The Abortion Law Reform Act 2008 decriminalised termination of pregnancy and set out guidelines for when abortion can take place. Any woman can attend an abortion clinic in Victoria and have an abortion until she is 24 weeks pregnant. Abortion after 24 weeks is legal, but isn’t commonly performed. Two doctors must agree the termination is appropriate, considering the woman’s relevant medical circumstances and her current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances.'
    Last edited by Kirst33; 29-04-2013 at 22:09.

  4. #273
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    The difference between stealing grapes and accessing safe abortion facilities aren't the same.

    You cannot compare them.

    I get the point you're making, that people cannot be trusted to make moral and ethical decisions. The thing is though, morals and ethics aren't something we all agree upon. The fact that pro-life and pro-choice even exist proves that - that we have very differing opinions on what's "right."

    The thing is, for the unborn to be granted rights means rights have to be removed from the mother... because the two cannot have equal rights... the rights one has conflicts with the rights of the other, and given one resides inside the other, you simply cannot give both equal rights. It just doesn't work.

    SOME people will not make decisions that most people would deem ethical and moral - I agree with that point you made PP. The thing is though, that out of all the women who HAVE had a termination, or who will at least consider it at some point in their lives... those who choose to have one for "valid," reasons (and again, that's not the best word, but I can't come up with one that better suits) will far outnumber those who do it for what most people would deem as "ridiculous," or downright "wrong," reasons.

    We can't trust that EVERYONE is going to make decisions that most others will find acceptable... because yeah, some people will make unethical decisions ("unethical," being the word I'm using to describe what most people would consider to be unethical)... but if you start saying, "Oh, you can't have one if you're unhappy with the sex," people will still have abortions for that reason, they'll just lie about the reason if they're asked. It won't prevent anything.

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  6. #274
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    Default Re: *warning* gender selection

    How privleged we are is becoming increasingly obvious in this thread.

    Makes me a bit sad people don‘t realise it.

    I will say if women willingly give up the rights they do have, and force others to do the same because they believe their morals and ethics are the right one's, just think how hard it will be to get those rights back. Harder than the first time, I've no doubt. Far harder.

    Remember women went to war on behalf of us, and I don't mean the kind fought with guns and ships. The quiet one fought across western countries to gain us the right to own ourselves, rather than be the property of our fathers, husbands and brothers. And they lost their life doing it.

    And now people have decided they‘re too much rights and would like people to take them away again.
    And you know what? You have the right to voice that, thanks to these same women. You have the right to voice your opinion without fear of reprisal or repercussion.

    Unfortunately, as harsh as the next part is going to sound, I'm going to say it anyway.
    If we want gender equality for the entire world, then we need to realise it needs to start with us. Whether you force an abortion on a woman(China) or refuse to give one at all (Ireland), you are infringing on the rights of people already in existance and deeming something that only has the potential for life(and until it is successfully born and takes its first breath, it IS only potential to life, factually. I believe life starts at conception, but that's a different discussion that has more to do with my religious beliefs than science, therefor irrelevant to this discussion).

    Anyway, to my point before I forget it again. If someone wants to give a fetus equal rights, how will that affect a society as a whole, not individually. Something you have to remember is that laws don't just affect one person, but the whole lot of us. As harsh as it is, sacrifices need to be made for the good of society as a whole rather than for individual people in it whose morals and ethics may not agree with an action.
    You need to remember your rights and privledges as women didn't and don‘t come cheaply, but there is always a price.

    I would love to live in a society where abortions aren't needed. They make me sad, both personally and for the person who‘s had one. I don‘t understand why the woman needed or wanted an abortion due to the gender of her baby. It upsets me quite a lot that she was in that place and needing to make that decision. I feel for her if she felt that was her only option for whatever reason. And if it's a social thing it makes my heart ache that she thought so little of herself and her daughter to do it. And it makes me angry that we live in a world that values women so little. And then it saddens me that people talk about gender equality and think that the way to fix it is to take away womens rights.

    I also feel horrible for the woman that someone would take this story and use it to further their anti abortion campaign.

    I'd like to bring my kid into a world where they own themselves.

    Eta: Went off on a tangent and kind of forgot to include my point. Or the anything to do with OP.

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    Last edited by Jennaisme; 29-04-2013 at 22:28.

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  8. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Sorry I'm a bit behind and haven't read the last few pages. That being said I read this post and couldn't stop myself from replying.

    I find the notion that a womans rights should never be taken away to be absurd. Peoples rights are taken away all the time: society has deemed many things unacceptable and parliament has legislated accordingly. Women cant do whatever they want now. They cant walk down the the street nude, cant leave their baby in a car in 40 degree heat, cant pay a surrogate to carry a baby for them, can't ask someone to help them commit suicide...

    I don't think an act involving a woman's body should mean a free pass to do whatever. As with other things, if society deems something to be past the point of acceptable, then parliament should be able to legislate against it.

    I acknowledge however that despite my own personal views at the moment there isn't enough public support to ban abortion. I think I was disagreeing with the reasoning behind the argument if that makes sense.
    - no offense intended!
    Being forced to wear clothing as you walk down the street doesn't risk your health. It doesn't change your life forever.

    Leaving your baby in a car in 40 degree heat is risking the life of another, acknowledged human being.

    Paying a surrogate... well, again, that sucks for those who want babies, and could probably benefit and make the journey easier if they could just pay someone to do it, but again, not being able to hire a uterus doesn't mean you cannot still USE a surrogate, it just means money cannot change hands.

    As for assisted suicide, banning that is as wrong as banning abortion IMO. If people do not want their bodies to live anymore, then that is their right and I believe that it should be their choice, as it is their body. Same as I support abortion, because it is their body.

    It's not saying that a woman should be able to do whatever she wants because she's a woman. It's saying that she deserves the right to say that she doesn't want to be supporting another life inside of her own body. Have her own health put at risk for something she doesn't want to be there.

    Some women are not happy to be used as the life-force to sustain a being they do not want to exist within their body. It should always be their right to say that they do not wish to put that kind of pressure and responsibility on their own body, that they are not happy to be used as a host by their foetus. It should always be their right to say, "No, I do not want this in my body, it's my body and I do not want this within it." Same as we could say no to having anything else put inside our bodies without our desire to have it in there.

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  10. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Its 24 weeks... http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/b...n_in_Australia


    Edit: sorry you're right, it is legal after but only for reasons two docs would find appropriate. Also very uncommon.

    'Abortion is legal in Victoria. The Abortion Law Reform Act 2008 decriminalised termination of pregnancy and set out guidelines for when abortion can take place. Any woman can attend an abortion clinic in Victoria and have an abortion until she is 24 weeks pregnant. Abortion after 24 weeks is legal, but isn’t commonly performed. Two doctors must agree the termination is appropriate, considering the woman’s relevant medical circumstances and her current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances.'
    Yeps was just about to post the link to the actual legislation.

    Ridiculous that termination (specifically early termination) is so easily accessible in Victoria, yet in Queensland it is still illegal.
    Last edited by wannawannabe; 29-04-2013 at 22:19.

  11. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannawannabe View Post
    Yeps was just about to post the link to the actual legislation.

    Ridiculous that termination (specifically early termination) is so easily accessible in Victoria, yet in Queensland it is still illegal.
    It is amazing how much it varies!

  12. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Some women are not happy to be used as the life-force to sustain a being they do not want to exist within their body. It should always be their right to say that they do not wish to put that kind of pressure and responsibility on their own body, that they are not happy to be used as a host by their foetus. It should always be their right to say, "No, I do not want this in my body, it's my body and I do not want this within it." Same as we could say no to having anything else put inside our bodies without our desire to have it in there.
    This is going to be unpopular, but with the exception of rape, Women have responsibilities as well, and one of those is that if they don't wish to fall pregnant is to use contraception.

    Yes there is a small failure rate even when contraception is used correctly, but it rather peeves me off when women go on about their rights to a termination but couldn't be bothered to make an effort to even try and prevent a pregnancy in the first place. And the withdrawal method doesn't count.

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  14. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannawannabe View Post
    This is going to be unpopular, but with the exception of rape, Women have responsibilities as well, and one of those is that if they don't wish to fall pregnant is to use contraception.

    Yes there is a small failure rate even when contraception is used correctly, but it rather peeves me off when women go on about their rights to a termination but couldn't be bothered to make an effort to even try and prevent a pregnancy in the first place. And the withdrawal method doesn't count.
    There's a lot of things in the world that peeves me off. Doesn't mean those things should be made illegal.

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  16. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    There's a lot of things in the world that peeves me off. Doesn't mean those things should be made illegal.

    Sent from my HUAWEI-U8850 using BubHub
    I never said it should be made illegal. Just that women need to take responsibility as well and actively make an effort to prevent a pregnancy if they don't want a pregnancy. The pill and condoms aren't 100% effective. People still fall pregnant with them even if they follow the instructions perfectly. It happens. And if you fall pregnant and it's unwanted, then have a termination. But at least make an effort to prevent it in the first place!!!!


 

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