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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Being truly pro-choice means that you have to seriously believe that everyone deserves to make their own choices... even if you think those choices are absolutely revolting.

    The alternative is for someone to put their own morals and ethics on another person's uterus... and to me, that's not cool, because while those morals and ethics might seem reasonable to some, they're not to everyone. I mean, who gets to decide what's "reasonable," and what's not? To some, unreasonable is ANY sort of abortion. To others, it's abortion other than those for medical reasons or rape.
    The thing is, by extension, people cannot always be relied upon to make moral and ethical decisions.

    If Bob thinks its reasonable to kill Pete, because he (for instance) killed Bob's loved one, he's still not allowed to do that.

    If Bob thinks its perfectly fine and ok to steal grapes from Woolworths because their bottom line can handle it, they always throw away 2% of the produce anyway, it's still not okay.

    As humans, we don't share a universal moral or ethical code. We generally agree that murder, theft etc aren't right, but there's a lot of gray area from person to person. So that's why I think laws and conditions are placed on things.

    In the end, I think what most people ere are discovering right now is that this is not a topic everyone can and should agree with. It's a really emotive topic, and I know for sure that no amount of logic, reason etc will make me able to 'un-feel' that a baby has rights. And just as some say a woman's rights shouldn't be made less because she's pregnant and shouldn't be impeded upon by a fetus, I passionately feel that as humans, and as the child bearers, we have a responsibility to protect the rights of unborn babies until they can take up their own fight for themselves.

    I am glad that we live where people don't have to seek backyard abortions. That's for damn sure!

    I also find my own opinion quite contradictory, because I really don't have any problem at all with abortion before 12 weeks. I am all fuzzy on abortions from 12-18 weeks, and from 18 weeks on, hearing of abortions makes me flinch internally.

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  3. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    I think you're right, and people would rather not know what actually happens to a viable baby that is terminated late term because it is too distressing to hear the truth. I find it sad that we a a society would support something we have little or no knowledge of - how can you be pro choice for a late term abortion if you have no idea of how that abortion actually occurs? Some people have no idea How the babies life is terminated when induced labour would mean that they would survive and it would be an unsuccessful abortion, so the dr needs to take measures to ensure that a healthy baby is no longer so. Google abortion procedures, even google image it, and then come back and say that you are 100% pro choice.
    Actually, don't because its horrifying.

    Seeing those pictures and hearing these procedures is what ultimately changed my mind from being totally pro choice to being whatever I am now.

    But seriously, this is a tangent of this argument that is guaranteed to not have a happy ending, because no matter what your stance, it's a distressing thing to see and read.

  4. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    the babies life is terminated before it is able to take a breath, either with partial birth, lethal cardic injection when the baby ids in utero, before labour has begun, or with a D & E (which I won't describe not to cause offence but it is awful to imagine it happening to a viable baby). Again we prefer to be ignorant to what actually goes on - but the only way for a healthy viable baby to be aborted is for its life to be artificially terminated by the doctor (as I already explained earlier).
    Sorry, but you are just talking rubbish.

    When I had my termination, baby was born alive. I was induced with tablets inserted into my cervix, that's it. None of this injection etc. that you speak of!

  5. #254
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    Yes, it is very very distressing. But I don't think you can support a choice to do those things to a baby if you have no idea what is actually done & how the baby is actually terminated. How a d & e (or 'intact' d & e) is performed on a baby, for example. It is so so sad & a great tragedy. I tend to think that staunch pro choices really must be just ignorant to what actually happens - surely no one could support it if they knew te truth? Surely not!
    I i follow the dr Seuss 'Horton hears a who' school of thought when it comes to termination - 'a persons a person, no matter how small'

  6. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    Yes, it is very very distressing. But I don't think you can support a choice to do those things to a baby if you have no idea what is actually done & how the baby is actually terminated. How a d & e (or 'intact' d & e) is performed on a baby, for example. It is so so sad & a great tragedy. I tend to think that staunch pro choices really must be just ignorant to what actually happens - surely no one could support it if they knew te truth? Surely not!
    I i follow the dr Seuss 'Horton hears a who' school of thought when it comes to termination - 'a persons a person, no matter how small'
    Well I don't know about anybody else, but you have to be stupid to not know what happens in any abortion. A fetus dies. I think that's pretty clear, pretty sure people who have terminated know that as well.

    I'm still pro choice.

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  8. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Sorry, but you are just talking rubbish.

    When I had my termination, baby was born alive. I was induced with tablets inserted into my cervix, that's it. None of this injection etc. that you speak of!
    I'm sorry, but I think you said before that your baby was not viable & that the termination was medically necessary? So your baby passed on its own? (Again, I'm sorry).
    If it were a healthy & viable late term baby then if the dr were just to induce labour, the baby would likely sùrvive labour as any other healthy baby would. So the baby has a lethal cardic injection or d & e or intact d & e (or partial birth) to ensure that it does not survive. It needs to have its life artificially terminated, otherwise it would be an unsuccessful abortion. I'm not talking rubbish, I think that some pro choices would rather not believe that these things actually do happen, an that is the choice that they are supporting.

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  10. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Well I don't know about anybody else, but you have to be stupid to not know what happens in any abortion. A fetus dies. I think that's pretty clear, pretty sure people who have terminated know that as well.

    I'm still pro choice.
    How does it die?

  11. #258
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    Oh gosh I wish I knew how to unsubscribe, im finding this extremely distressing to read.

    Sent from my GT-I9305T using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  13. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    How does it die?
    Why does that matter?

    Most women having an abortion find the decision difficult enough as it is. They know essentially what they're doing, do you purposely want to make it harder for them if they happen to be ignorant about the procedure.

    Most people after 12/14 weeks would have the procedure explained to them. I did. It was made very clear and I was able to ask a lot of questions about it.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 29-04-2013 at 21:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinderella82 View Post
    'a persons a person, no matter how small'
    And as Sassy pointed out A woman loses rights as soon as a fetus gains some.

    At the end of the day no matter how awful the vision is of how the procedures are preformed, A womans rights should never be taken away - even if she is pregant.

    You can go on about the procedure all you like, it doesn't convince me that a woman shouldn't have a right to choose what happens to her own body.

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