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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    The sticking point for me is that a mother needs to have bodily autonomy, that's a basic right, but as far as late term abortions go (ones after which a baby is 'viable') if that baby was birthed and not 'interfered' with (euthanized?), it would then be a person with its own set of rights. I don't understand how a relatively thin layer of flesh somehow extinguishes the rights of the child. How can we choose whose rights are more important?
    Bodily autonomy isn't an absolute right in Australia. Whenever the police forcibly demand someone's blood, or even breathilise you, that's against your bodily autonomy. There are quite a few examples where bodily autonomy is overridden by powers of police.

    Second though I understand that nowhere in Australia would allow abortion unless it was absolutely extreme if the baby would survive outside the womb. Victoria has the latest cut off of 24 weeks, and that is because the baby wouldn't survive. It would I imagine be extremely rare for an abortion to be granted after 24 weeks. I know of one case in Victoria where it happened about 9 years ago and there was a massive outrage over it (the baby was diagnosed with dwarfism and the mother had a complete mental and physical break down after the diagnosis - she aborted the fetus and sadly it was discovered there was nothing wrong with it - it was horrendous).

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boobycino View Post
    But so what if they go on to have a boy - and he's not everything the wanted a BOY to be. They want a boy so intensely they'd abort a daughter on the basis of her gender..... What if their boy isn't into sports and trucks or whatever it may be that they see a boy will fulfil for them.
    If in this situation the couple are from a culture that values males over females and that is the reason for the request then I'm guessing male babies are not 'allowed' to be anything other than manly man.

    Quote Originally Posted by bugsy View Post
    Perhaps we should be looking to increase women's rights in countries and cultures where they aren't respected. This could reduce the demand for sex selection.
    Absolutely. We are so privileged in Australia. The difference in freedoms we have in Australia compared to many other parts of the world is staggering. These rights include:
    - the right for our birth to be recorded and celebrated
    - the right to an education including tertiary education
    - the right to be valued equally to a male
    - the right to pick a career
    - the right to vote
    - the right to leave the house unaccompanied
    - the right to proper and confidential medical advice and assistance
    - the right to birth control
    - the right to drive
    - the right to chose our own husband
    - the right to divorce
    - the right to recourse under the law if we are assaulted
    - the right to own property
    - the right to shared custody of children
    - the right to equal standing under the law (ie our testimony is valued equally to a male)
    - the right to dress how we chose
    - the right to equal pay for equal work
    - the right to say no to our husband's sexual demands
    - the right to be a free and not have a life dedicated to serving the males in the family

    And that's just for starters. It's sad but the majority of women in the world do not have all of these rights.

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  4. #183
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    I'm pro choice, but personally I would never abort a baby due to gender, that being said what these people do isn't really any of my business, if they acted within the law then so be it, if it still bothers people maybe they need to lobby for some change.

    Also I remember a hubber who flew over to America for gender selection, she had a boy all ready, transferred three girl embies and had triplets.

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    Those people saying you are either pro choice or not is too black and white that is not the real world - shades of grey are everywhere. If a woman is allowed to terminate at 19 weeks simply due to gender where do you draw the line? Can one then at 22 weeks go oh I don't want a boy any more or at 30 weeks or later. There is a point where termination of a healthy fetus is murder - simple. People can be prosecuted for manslaughter if they for example drink and drive and cause a miscarriage! How is terminating late term with no medical reason any different. Pro choice is a lovely concept but there needs to be a line, stop being so narrow minded

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    You're either pro-choice or pro-life. There's no in between. You can't be 'pro-choice but...' because that implies conditions. Pro-choice comes without conditions.

    I may not agree with or even understand abortion based on the sex of the unborn, but I don't have to support or agree with that, to be in support of a woman's right to her reproductive organs and to her bodily autonomy.

    Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    I remember the couple who terminated their boy twins late term, in Victoria again because they were boys and they wanted girls. I felt really devastated about that, i have boy twins, I couldn't imagine how anyone could do it.

    So it does swing both ways in terms of gender.

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    What rubbish it is to say you can only be fully pro-choice or fully pro-life. I support the right of a woman to choose an abortion for valid medical and/or psychological reasons, but not just because the baby is the "wrong" sex. Perhaps there is more at play in this situation? Maybe the husband threatened the wife's life if she went through with the pregnancy? It's a difficult situation from an ethical and moral standpoint.

    My understanding always was that pro-life is pro-life, not pro-fetus. If giving birth to a child will harm the mother in any way, surely common sense prevails & the mother has the right to a safe termination of the pregnancy (i.e. the life of the mother is equal to the life of the baby)? If not, that's every bit a stupid as saying "a woman can do whatever she wants to her body for whatever reason she wants". It can't be black and white, and policy makers should have a role in protecting the rights of all citizens (including unborn babies), without prejudice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arli View Post
    Those people saying you are either pro choice or not is too black and white that is not the real world - shades of grey are everywhere. If a woman is allowed to terminate at 19 weeks simply due to gender where do you draw the line? Can one then at 22 weeks go oh I don't want a boy any more or at 30 weeks or later. There is a point where termination of a healthy fetus is murder - simple. People can be prosecuted for manslaughter if they for example drink and drive and cause a miscarriage! How is terminating late term with no medical reason any different. Pro choice is a lovely concept but there needs to be a line, stop being so narrow minded
    There is a line, the gestational age where it becomes illegal in each state without medical reason - that's the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokeybear View Post
    Why doesn't Aus offer gender selection to those that want it anyway, I'm sure only a minority would be prepared to do it, why is it illegal here?
    I think it's against IVF guidelines because it would lead to people having a preference for one sex for no good reason. You can do pre genetic screening which I think can select for sex only in the cases of genetic illnesses that are carried on the male or female line.

    My IVF doctor has always said that she will never, ever consider sex selection even if it is legal, a healthy baby is enough. Id hazard a guess that those doing ivf for fertility reasons usually don't give two hoots if its a boy or a girl, as long as its healthy.

    I just don't get gender selection. A child should be a blessing, whether its a boy or a girl. If you get 3 boys in a row and want a girl then it's the way the cookie crumbles and you should just be grateful for healthy children. I don't get it.


 

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