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  1. #171
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    Long term also, sorry if I'm repeating I haven't read every single post - but unless there's an underlying medical /genetic reason to have a preference for a girl or boy, if it's a matter of there's a perceived life with a particular gender they want, like I'll totally emphasise with gender disappointment. I actively Ttc knowing I'd be heartbroken if I didn't have a girl. Not that having a boy was the issue it was the thought of *never* having a girl.

    But so what if they go on to have a boy - and he's not everything the wanted a BOY to be. They want a boy so intensely they'd abort a daughter on the basis of her gender..... What if their boy isn't into sports and trucks or whatever it may be that they see a boy will fulfil for them.

    What then?

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  3. #172
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    The saddest thing is that there are cultures where a baby girls life has less value than a baby boys.

    It would appear, though, that abortion for sex selective reasons in australia is very rare. (One doctor with links to anti-abortion politics has come up with one case).

    It would be a dreadful irony if fear of sex selective abortion in any way curtailed access to abortion for Australian women, seeing that offering reproductive choices is an essential tenet of gender equality.

    Perhaps we should be looking to increase women's rights in countries and cultures where they aren't respected. This could reduce the demand for sex selection.
    Last edited by bugsy; 29-04-2013 at 14:47.

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  5. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8 View Post
    That's a good point about gender selection being illegal over here, I wonder why that is? Surely there are worse outcomes (i.e what's happening in this scenario). If it could be avoided by being able to select the gender of your child on conception, than i think it would be far better than performing a late term abortion on a perfectly healthy baby because of it being an undesired gender. I think this should open discussion about making it available in Australia and providing that service to intended parents. I have thought about gender selection and gender swaying after having 3 sons, i'd love a daughter, but it's not an option I have in Aus.
    The case against social sex selection in Australia is complex. The argument centres on the premise that parenthood should be based on the unconditional love and acceptance of a child for who they are. There is also a concern that sex selection will lead to a bias towards one gender, such as less women and more men. In the United States, doctors estimate that 80% of couples choose girls over boys.

    There is also an argument that sex selection is a slippery slope towards ‘designer babies’, or eugenics, which would allow features such as eye colour, height and intelligence to be chosen prior to conception.

    Sex selection is also available in India.

    The reality is if it was available it would not be covered by Medicare and therefore would be so prohibitively expensive I imagine the number of people who would use it for non genetic diseases would be small. I'm not sure how many people now go overseas to sex select.

    Having gone through IVF for over 7 years I'll be honest I just don't get gender disappointment. But I agree that termination for gender is very different from gender disappointment. Honestly, if a culture places so little on the value of a girl's life I wonder whether aborting the female fetus weighs heavily on its conscience. There are horror stories of female babies being dumped on birth and dying after being abandoned. Would people in that position pay $10000 for sex selection? I think we're talking about 2 different things.

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  7. #174
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    Sonja: I wonder if the US statistic is because those parents choosing sex selection and a majority choosing girls is because the couples already have boys? Therefore choosing girls as its their 'last chance' to have a daughter?

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  9. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    Sonja: I wonder if the US statistic is because those parents choosing sex selection and a majority choosing girls is because the couples already have boys? Therefore choosing girls as its their 'last chance' to have a daughter?
    I don't know. I don't know how gender disappointment works. Eg I know my mil never wanted girls because she had a terrible relationship with her own mother and didn't want to repeat the same mistakes. Luckily she only had sons. So I imagine the reasons are complex. For one of my close friends it was the opposite. She was incredibly close to her own mother and was very disappointed when she only had boys herself as she felt that close bond would never be repeated.

    So I guess the reasons are as varied as the families.

  10. #176
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    I actually wonder if sex selection via IVF would be so expensive that it wouldn't stop those who terminate for this reason because they most likely couldn't afford the IVF??

  11. #177
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    This has been very interesting to read! I fall somewhere in the middle...

    I have always respected the rights of people to have an abortion, but I have personally never understood it. This goes beyond my comprehension though.

    I am 100% unequivocally pro-life as far as my own body is concerned. I wouldn't abort to have chemo or anything like that (to be fair, I don't *think* I would, I am lucky enough to have never been tested).

    The sticking point for me is that a mother needs to have bodily autonomy, that's a basic right, but as far as late term abortions go (ones after which a baby is 'viable') if that baby was birthed and not 'interfered' with (euthanized?), it would then be a person with its own set of rights. I don't understand how a relatively thin layer of flesh somehow extinguishes the rights of the child. How can we choose whose rights are more important?
    My mother brought me into the world, she could have terminated me. But she isn't allowed to terminate me now, no matter how horrible I am to her, or how terribly I mess with her life, no matter how detrimental my existence is to her mental health. It's like that 'post birth abortion' thing that was going around. It's a moral minefield.


    I personally also struggle with the decision to abort based on the child having Down Syndrome, and personally it kind of feels the same to me as aborting because it was the wrong sex. (let me be 100% clear that I have NO judgement for people who have or would, and I would be completely supportive to a friend who had made that decision AND I would never air this opinion anywhere that didn't have a 'warning' label). Obviously there's a WHOLE LOTTA grey area there too. I just personally know two people with DS very well, I enjoy their company, I have found them both to be insightful, kind, happy people. One is a medalist in the Special Olympics and travels all over the world for swimming. I feel so sad knowing that some people look at them and think to themselves 'he would have been better off not being born'. I understand there are different degrees and no matter what having a child with DS means a lifelong commitment, even more so than having a non-DS child.
    But that's probably a discussion for another thread. (Though it is the 'maiden voyage' of this particular opinion, and I may choose to lock it back up permanently.)

    I also think everyone has done well to discuss this emotive topic so maturely.

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  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirst33 View Post
    I actually wonder if sex selection via IVF would be so expensive that it wouldn't stop those who terminate for this reason because they most likely couldn't afford the IVF??
    That was the point I made in my post above. IVF costs nearly $10000 before Medicare (more when you add in hospital costs). I doubt people who would terminate would pay that.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I don't know. I don't know how gender disappointment works. Eg I know my mil never wanted girls because she had a terrible relationship with her own mother and didn't want to repeat the same mistakes. Luckily she only had sons. So I imagine the reasons are complex. For one of my close friends it was the opposite. She was incredibly close to her own mother and was very disappointed when she only had boys herself as she felt that close bond would never be repeated.

    So I guess the reasons are as varied as the families.
    When we first got pregnant last year I was leaning more towards wanting a boy because I was having trouble with my mom and sisters and worried about a relationship with a daughter turning that way, i still didn't care too much about the gender but the worry was there. When I gave birth and saw my tiny daughter (we didn't know she was a girl before she passed away since she passed just before my 20 week scan) I was amazed by how much I loved her. Now I could careless, I just want a baby to arrive safely. But, that said I do often get a painful fear that I will never have a living daughter that I get to watch grow. That fear would never lead me to not being grateful for a healthy boy though.

    In a way I guess I can kind of understand gender disappointment, but not to the point of terminating or disliking a child because of their gender.

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  16. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanityFey View Post
    http://mobile.news.com.au/lifestyle/...-1226631128438

    A little more information on the subject. Turns out the doc sends to have an issue with all abortions
    Very interesting Vanity. I also thought it was interesting that this story came out only 2 days after RU486 was put on the PBS.

    Isn't the bigger issue here that there is still an idea out there that boys are better than girls? I am horrified. I was born in the 70's and grew up with the 'Girls can do anything' mantra ringing in my ears. How nearly 40 years later can we have seemingly gone so far backward that girls aren't even worth having?

    From the article I also doubt that it was the woman's choice to have the termination.

    Some serious education is required in this country if this is how we are going to view the future of girls.

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