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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I do think religion usually trumps because that's a belief steeped heavily in culture, tradition and family. If you don't believe in anything then thats not really cultural, it has no tradition and so I don't think that holds as much value.
    It's like marrying someone who is jewish, you are atheist, then never allowing your children to have shabbat dinner or not allowing them to become involved in their families religious traditions, and saying 'I don't believe or I'm atheist and thats just as important so we're having pork instead' I don't know, I don't think that's right.
    If you both have strong beliefs like 1 is muslim and 1 is catholic and you have to choose 1 because you can't be both, then that is a discussion you have to have before you have kids or get married at all. It breaks alot of couples up that I know of and familes even. It's definately important for alot of people.
    I actually take exception to this part of your post. You imply that religion is steeped in tradition and family and culture but being atheist is not, has no tradition and has no value. Excuse me, first off-how rude! And you couldn't be more wrong. My father actively raised me as an atheist, my grandfather taught me about evolution and science. Culture and religion are not the same thing, you can certainly have one without the other. As an atheist, like Bec, I not only don't believe in a god, I have an active knowledge of the world, the universe and my place in it. I believe in science, facts and ever evolving understanding that grows and changes as we learn more. Religion, like god, is a man made construct, lots of evidence supports this, but if you want to have one, that's your business. I don't agree with religion. I see the harm it does in our world and I'd love to see it end, but not because people were told they weren't allowed to practice it- instead because they realise its not needed and causes much harm. I would never be so rude as to tell someone their lifestyle holds little value based on their beliefs or lack thereof!

    As for your example, if I married a Jew (and I dated one directly before my husband actually) I don't see at all why his Judaism would trump my atheism! Our children would belong to both of us, not just him. I'd let them have dinners but no way would I indoctrinate them. Religion should be their choice. There is a big difference between telling your child "I believe this, others believe that" and teaching religion as fact.

    Atheism is not a religion, it is generally a belief in facts, evidence, science, reason. It is, however, no less strong because it isn't based around a "god" who has never been seen, heard or otherwise reliably documented ever. My atheism is just as important to me as your religion might be to you, perhaps even more so. Please don't be so dismissive of something I don't think you actually understand (based on your post here).
    Last edited by Atropos; 18-04-2013 at 08:52.

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    What is the harm in her child being baptised? I find most people who were baptised still make their own decisions on their beliefs later in life and I honestly don't believe it will harm him/her.

    I do think religion usually trumps because that's a belief steeped heavily in culture, tradition and family. If you don't believe in anything then thats not really cultural, it has no tradition and so I don't think that holds as much value.
    I disagree. Some people are morally opposed to organised religion, and view it as against their ethics/ beliefs to indoctrinate a child into one.

    Atheism is not simply the absence of belief.

    For my DH, for example, he holds strong ethical views about why religion is unacceptable to him, and why it would be wrong for him to play any part in a religious ceremony. He would feel that he was failing as a parent if he brought DD up with a religious background.

    That ethos holds just as much value as a religion does for someone else.

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  5. #73
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    OP your beliefs are just as important as your partner's. Just because he wants this doesn't mean you should be the one to compromise simply for the sake of 'water on a baby's head'.

    I think it's a bit odd that this came out of the blue and that he has never shown a religious persuasion yet now wants your child(ren) baptised... And under these circumstances I think it's unfair that he expects you to just accept that! Um no, you shouldn't! It's a tad hypocritical of him - surely he knew you were an atheist/agnostic long ago?

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    I don't think my opinion is rude at all. That's how I view atheism. It doesn't have any tradition, science or evolution isn't an atheist belief, it doesn't 'belong' to atheism. They are 2 different things.
    You can teach your children about science and how you view the world AND about God and religion. Why does it have to be 1 or the other?
    Baptism isn't a bad thing. A child can get baptised and learn about 1 parents religion and also about the other parents views and make up their own mind later on (as most people do) when I say trump, I believe if a parents beliefs involve a ceremony, then that ceremony is important enough to not include it at all.

    I don't think anyone should get angry. Its just my opinion. If you are comfortable with your beliefs mine shouldn't worry you, they're not about you and I'm not telling you how to raise your kids. I'm not an extremist in anything so I'm open to most things.

  7. #75
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    I also don't think it's right to exclude a parents beliefs altogether. If you are fiercely against something and don't want your children learning that, then you must re consider having children with that person.

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  9. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Baptism isn't a bad thing.
    To you

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  11. #77
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    I think that baptism is something one should choose for themselves when they are able to. I don't think it should be forced on a baby who can make no choice.
    I went to a baptism once and nearly left in the middle. They asked the god parents to take on the sins that the baby had committed?? What sins could a 3 month old possibly have committed?

    We have discussed this already as DP's family are very very religious and we are not at all. Our children will not be getting baptised, no matter how much pressure there is from her family. And there will be pressure as her grandpa and an uncle are both pastors!
    We also discusse what happens if her family babysits (as we know they will want to) and happen to have the kids on days that they attend church, which is almost all of the weekend plus some week nights. We decided that they could take the kids before they were at an age to understand what is going on around them but once they were old enough, they would not be allowed to take them to church. Their church is very particular in trying to get more people to attend and I don't want them to tell our kids that their 2 mummies are going to hell. We will be teaching our kids about all kinds of religion and allowing them to make their own choices.
    I know everyone is different but I also can't see how this wouldn't have been discussed before becoming pregnant

  12. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    To you
    Yes ofcourse to me, its my opinion.

  13. #79
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    Sometimes you just forget to talk about things before you become seriously involved with someone.

    Religion - that's an easy one. The things that sometimes come out of my mouth make it clear that I'm an atheist to anyone listening. I will listen to others and usually you can figure out if they're religious or not based on some of the things they say. If it never got out that way, then I would have outright asked DP and then moved along if he was religious.

    I can see how others might not do this though, because there's something I forgot to discuss before getting serious with DP. Circumcision. It's one of those other things where there's no compromise, like religion. It's either done, or it's not. My view, with both, is "leave it up to them, they can make that choice as an adult." While religion is something I always consider when looking for a partner, his stance on circumcision wasn't something that was ever brought up... until we were living together and already in a serious, committed relationship.

    It's one of those issues I am really not looking forward to having to deal with. One of us is going to "lose," and I'm going to make damn sure it's not me... but it's still going to be a crappy situation to deal with.

    So, given that I overlooked that little piece of info, that is quite important if ever we have a son together, I can see how others might forget about the religion thing if it's not right at the front of their mind when they're getting to know their new love interest.

    Really though... I'll always believe (obviously) that just NOT doing it is better... in all of these situations where there really is no compromise. Why? Because it gives the child to make a choice when they're in the position to do so. You've given THEM the right to call the shots in their own lives, and really, that's far more fair than removing that right by making the choice yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Yes ofcourse to me, its my opinion.
    Yes I realise that, but for someone who claims to be open you seem pretty insistent about what an athiest is and what they believe.

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