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  1. #141
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    You could argue that atheisms God is science and man.

    Everyone has a God. The definition can be "One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed."

    For some money can be their God, its their main focus and given highest priority, for some people, celebrities and sports stars are idolised or worshipped, so it could be said that thats their God.

    Its not always viewed in a religious sense, but rather what one puts their faith in and puts up on a pedestal.

    Not wanting to become involved in this debate but thought that could be what some mean when they refer to atheism as a religion. Religion as in "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe"

    Dont mind me, just thinking out loud!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I haven't been getting that at all though. I also believe atheism is about not believing full stop, this is why I said it doesn't have much meaning or value. This is where people got offended and posted about their 'beliefs and culture and traditions' relating atheism. But Atheism isn't anything but a short hand way of saying you don't believe in anything. When someone says the believe in evolution and science because of their atheism, then that is adopting a belief system into Atheism and I don't agree with that. I'm not rejecting your personal beliefs about the universe, but claiming them as Atheist views. When you want to be recognised as an atheist and being atheist has a set of values and beliefs, then I will put that in the bag with all other religions and beliefs, regardless of dictionary definitions. This is how I view it.
    I have no doubt defining someone elses beliefs can frustrate them, but I can also see it goes both ways. You say a difference of opinion, and we are having a difference of opinion. If you are allowed to do that with Christianity, why can't I do that with Atheism? If you are frustrated by what I'm saying, then you can imagine why a christian would get upset when the same is done to them.
    But can you not also see a parallel for religious views?

    If someone says they believe in God, then that doesn't tell me anything more than that either. They may believe in Jesus (or not), they may follow any number of different religious doctrines, they may follow the old testament or the new, or any one of a number of religious texts or bibles. They may go to church or not. I wouldn't know.

    Saying you believe in a supernatural being doesn't tell anyone anything more than that simple fact. Just as saying you don't believe in a supernatural being doesn't tell anyone anything else either.

  4. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoThisIsLove View Post
    You could argue that atheisms God is science and man.

    Everyone has a God. The definition can be "One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed."

    For some money can be their God, its their main focus and given highest priority, for some people, celebrities and sports stars are idolised or worshipped, so it could be said that thats their God.

    Its not always viewed in a religious sense, but rather what one puts their faith in and puts up on a pedestal.

    Not wanting to become involved in this debate but thought that could be what some mean when they refer to atheism as a religion. Religion as in "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe"

    Dont mind me, just thinking out loud!!
    However, in our society most people refer to a monotheistic God. For example, someone cannot identify as a member of 2 different religious organisations.

    If you took your argument to its logical end, then we would all be polytheists - following a God (maybe), and science, and history, and geography, and a political party, and an economic ideology, etc.

    It simply doesn't make sense to redefine religion as following 'anything'. Religion is defined by the presence of a supernatural figurehead, rather than by simply being anything at all that you believe to be true about the world in which you live.

  5. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Christmas is about the birth of Christ. They may have stolen the date, but it is about the birth of Jesus.
    I'm not denying that for Christians it may be about the birth of Jesus but the annual festival existed long before Christianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    You say a difference of opinion, and we are having a difference of opinion. If you are allowed to do that with Christianity, why can't I do that with Atheism? If you are frustrated by what I'm saying, then you can imagine why a christian would get upset when the same is done to them.
    I think people are taking objection to you defining atheism as a religion, by definition it isn't. Of course I believe in evolution, science etc, that's why I termed it short hand. Rather than explaining my lack of belief in god, in creationism as opposed to evolution it's easier to say atheist bc everyone knows what that means.

    As to the above paragraph, I have no issue discussing my beliefs, or lack there of depending on your angle. I see what we have having right now as a difference of opinion and nothing more. My statements about some religious people being quite smug and PA wasn't directed at you, or even this thread but more on a general level.

    I disagree with you that atheism is a religion, but I'm not offended and I certainly wouldn't start saying you are persecuting me and my feelings and that atheism is off limits to discuss bc you are upsetting me. Which is what some religious peeps do.

  7. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    So... does this mean that vegetarianism is also a religion? And homosexuality too?

    I know you say that you have disregarded the dictionary definitions of religion and atheism, but surely you can then see that it may be difficult to debate/ converse with you about this topic, as you have redefined words to have their own personal meaning to you which is not commonly shared by anyone else.

    It would be a bit like me saying that I think religious people are all insane because (to me) religion means that you all wear purple hats. And then, when religious people pointed out that they didn't, me saying that I don't care how other people define it - that's MY definition.
    Lots of things can be seen as a religion. It is quite common to use the word 'religiously' in something you do and follow. It's not out of reach Girl X religion is a word it's not just for churches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    But can you not also see a parallel for religious views?

    If someone says they believe in God, then that doesn't tell me anything more than that either. They may believe in Jesus (or not), they may follow any number of different religious doctrines, they may follow the old testament or the new, or any one of a number of religious texts or bibles. They may go to church or not. I wouldn't know.

    Saying you believe in a supernatural being doesn't tell anyone anything more than that simple fact. Just as saying you don't believe in a supernatural being doesn't tell anyone anything else either.
    No ofcourse it doesn't. That's why there are groups that define their set of beliefs. Orthodox Jews, Mormons, Catholic, Anglican etc etc. This is one of my first points regarding Atheism and having a set of vales and beliefs common to all Atheists. Each of the above sects do. Does Atheism? I don't believe so, Evolution can't be, science can't be (this is too broad anyway), nothing belongs to Atheism, unlike baptism which is exclusive to christianity and has thousands of years of tradition. Atheism doesn't, when you do want specific belief systems attached to define Atheism (which would mean all atheists must have the same beliefs), then it's following a religion. Atheism.
    There are no sects of Atheism. For example, my atheism doesn't believe in evolution, but theirs does. So what defines Atheism and is common for all Atheists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    For example, my atheism doesn't believe in evolution, but theirs does. So what defines Atheism and is common for all Atheists?
    Well the common tie is not believing there is a god. Beyond that it can differ. Like any group of people they aren't homogenious just like Christians. Some believe the bible should be read literally. Other christians don't think that.

    If you are defining a group as a religious group based on common values (is that what you are saying? lol just clarifying) then almost everything in life is a religion.

    And as a side, and you don't have to answer if you don't wish - but you say you are atheist, but don't believe in evolution. How do you believe we began? Do you believe in science and that there isn't a god, but don't believe we have evolved? Interested in your stance if you are willing to discuss...

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I think people are taking objection to you defining atheism as a religion, by definition it isn't. Of course I believe in evolution, science etc, that's why I termed it short hand. Rather than explaining my lack of belief in god, in creationism as opposed to evolution it's easier to say atheist bc everyone knows what that means.

    As to the above paragraph, I have no issue discussing my beliefs, or lack there of depending on your angle. I see what we have having right now as a difference of opinion and nothing more. My statements about some religious people being quite smug and PA wasn't directed at you, or even this thread but more on a general level.

    I disagree with you that atheism is a religion, but I'm not offended and I certainly wouldn't start saying you are persecuting me and my feelings and that atheism is off limits to discuss bc you are upsetting me. Which is what some religious peeps do.
    I am not saying it is a religion, I can't define that. But I also think it pushes that button for me and I do see it like that sometimes when people want to attach a belief system to Atheism and want it respected the same way as any other religion. It either is a religion or isn't.
    Otherwise I can completely respect someones personal views on the universe, their upbringing and how they choose to raise their children. I would respect anyones lack of belief in a God or any kind of church, and their belief in sciences. But I think these are individual beliefs. Atheism isn't something I view the same way, personal beliefs I can respect, but Atheism on the same spectrum as religion? This I find confusing. Because to me Atheism only means a lack of belief in anything.
    And then personal beliefs and views about the universe is different again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Well the common tie is not believing there is a god. Beyond that it can differ. Like any group of people they aren't homogenious just like Christians. Some believe the bible should be read literally. Other christians don't think that.

    If you are defining a group as a religious group based on common values (is that what you are saying? lol just clarifying) then almost everything in life is a religion.

    And as a side, and you don't have to answer if you don't wish - but you say you are atheist, but don't believe in evolution. How do you believe we began? Do you believe in science and that there isn't a god, but don't believe we have evolved? Interested in your stance if you are willing to discuss...
    Where did I say that? I am not an atheist. And I do believe in evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I am not saying it is a religion, I can't define that. But I also think it pushes that button for me and I do see it like that sometimes when people want to attach a belief system to Atheism and want it respected the same way as any other religion. It either is a religion or isn't.
    But see that is the sticking point here. Just bc we expect our beliefs be respected doesn't make us a a religion. Gays demand equal rights, and that people respect their lifestyle. Homosexuality is not a religion. Feminists fight for their rights to be respected amongst other goals. Not a religion.

    It's hard for me to define, but I see atheism as a movement rather than a religion. Much like feminism, gay rights etc.

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