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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    This I find offensive. Why bother with the ceremony then? You promise to do something then renegade on it. I'm not singling your family out BRV but any family that does it.

    Its like getting married then cheating on your partner.
    I don't care about a christening. It was more important to my husband. God parents are supposed to teach their god children the catholic way, yet the church didn't mind that we had chosen a godmother who wasn't even catholic! Or that we were not married at the time.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    As an atheist it's frustrating to feel like I constantly have to be respectful of those that are religious but it is rarely returned.
    I'd have to agree. Just thinking of my own situation I feel I am extremely respectful of DP's family's views. They don't even know I'm athiest (or that DP is!!!) because we'd be totally outcast, and yet we accept them as they are. Imagine if I told one of the other children that God doesn't exist... phwoar!!!! Yet it's deemed perfectly acceptable that my DS is taught that "Christmas is about the baby" and "the man who made everything".

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I never said you can't have a tradition within your family and I never said cultures and traditions exist only in religion. But 'Atheism' isn't a culture or tradition or 1 set of beliefs. The only common factor is a lack of belief in God. Modern day atheism is becoming a religion and I think that's where you are coming from,wanting to lay claim to evolution, science, reason, humanism and be a group under the heading Atheist. Which is fine to do just like any other religion, but I won't accept your claim to any of those things as defining atheism because it doesn't belong to atheism.
    Modern day atheism isn't becoming a religion, since that requires a deity or god, nor am I laying claim to anything in its name. You misunderstood all I've posted!

    Evolution, science, reason etc are things I value in their own right and they are important to me because I am an atheist- I don't credit any of these things to a god, I credit them to humanity- that itself IS an atheist trait, if you like. If you don't believe in god, you can't credit these things to anyone else. Atheists don't believe in god- we believe in people. Atheism is more than a lack of belief in god- it encompasses anti-theism and many other aspects. Passing this information own through generations is a tradition for many families- by definition, this is what tradition is. You said atheism had no tradition, as an atheist, I'm telling you, you are incorrect. Maybe all atheists don't hold with this tradition, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or have value.

    Culture: Noun
    The arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

    Atheism, by its nature, rejects god/s in favour of humanity, so I dont see how you can reject atheistic culture.

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  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I'd have to agree. Just thinking of my own situation I feel I am extremely respectful of DP's family's views. They don't even know I'm athiest (or that DP is!!!) because we'd be totally outcast, and yet we accept them as they are. Imagine if I told one of the other children that God doesn't exist... phwoar!!!! Yet it's deemed perfectly acceptable that my DS is taught that "Christmas is about the baby" and "the man who made everything".
    Look, I'm not religious, but Christmas is about a baby.

    Isn't it slightly hypocritical to celebrate it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post

    As an atheist it's frustrating to feel like I constantly have to be respectful of those that are religious but it is rarely returned.
    This, I agree 1000%, well put Del

  7. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Look, I'm not religious, but Christmas is about a baby.

    Isn't it slightly hypocritical to celebrate it?
    Yes it is hypocritical... Of the Christians who stole the day and half the customs off the pagans! If they can celebrate a pagan holiday and call it their own, my atheist family can have a present and ham-off-the-bone day!

    It was in 601 that Pope Gregory I wrote to Melitus (his missionary in England) telling him "not to stop such ancient Pagan festivities" but to "adapt them to the rites of the Church, only changing the reason of them from a heathen to a Christian impulse".
    Last edited by Atropos; 18-04-2013 at 11:54.

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  9. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Look, I'm not religious, but Christmas is about a baby.

    Isn't it slightly hypocritical to celebrate it?
    I've found atheists, as opposed to not religious iykwim, celebrate xmas in a different way. For us it's about good food, good company and valuing what we have both materially and our family.

    I also think that many atheists, and I am one of them, believe Jesus really did exist, he just wasn't divine. So we see the connection with it being about the birth of jesus. That doesn't make us hypocritical. Just that we interpret it differently.

    But I digress lol

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    And while I'm digressing on the subject of feeling like my beliefs are not respected. My Dad has been religious and a weekly church goer since I was a kid. he knows I'm atheist. yet continues to harp on about baptising our youngest despite me telling him over and over we won't be. Is always inviting us to 'special' church services and functions despite me politely saying no. I feel this constant vibe of him trying to save me from my atheism and it's really p'ing me off lately. I would never dare, knowing he's religious, invite him to a atheist do, or push my beliefs on him.... ever.

    In religious threads I always try to tread lightly and be respectful. But it's often one sided.

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  13. #119
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    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Modern day atheism is becoming a religion and I think that's where you are coming from,wanting to lay claim to evolution, science, reason, humanism and be a group under the heading Atheist. Which is fine to do just like any other religion, but I won't accept your claim to any of those things as defining atheism because it doesn't belong to atheism.
    Atheism at any time is nothing like a religion. A religion requires a leap of faith, it requires a person to believe in one or more deities/superhuman agency without evidence. Atheism believes that there are no such deities and relies on science to explain the universe and cosmos. Whilst there has been a surge of atheism in the last few years this does not somehow make it a religion.

    As for laying claim to evolution, given it's the most widely researched scientific topic in history and gives us a solid explanation of the diversity of life on earth based on science, yes, I would then think it only right that atheists can lay claim to evolution.

    Religion cannot lay claim to reason as it does not hold under critical thinking, science does. As for humanism, the definition of humanism by dictionary.com is
    a variety of ethical theory and practice that emphasizes reason, scientific inquiry, and human fulfillment in the natural world and often rejects the importance of belief in God.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I find it a bit much that people are saying being christened harms a child and I would be interested to hear why people think my children have been hurt in some way because of it!
    I don't think it harms a child in any way. As I said before the actual ceremony is rather innocuous. It's not like say a circ, something that physiologically changes the child without their consent. Whilst ceremonies can be very nice the biggest issue I would have with this is that if I had a child baptised I would be actively supporting an organisation that I think is morally corrupt.

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  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Look, I'm not religious, but Christmas is about a baby.

    Isn't it slightly hypocritical to celebrate it?
    Hey if the Government are going to make a holiday around it and delegate public holidays around it then we may as well all celebrate! what we all celebrate though varies rather significantly


 

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