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  1. #101
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    My DP and I are both athiest/agnostic but he comes from a strong religious background. My belief is that children should be free to choose their own beliefs and not have anything forced on them. This includes my beliefs. If he asks, I will tell him what I believe, and what some other people believe, but this doesn't make it true - it's a belief.

    Unfortunately, because DP is from a strong religious history my DS receives religious gifts/poems/cards at every event and there are certain family members strongly forcing their beliefs on him.

    He's not related to them. It's extremely disrespectful toward my belief that children are free to choose their own path in life, free from indoctrination and manipulation. Thankfully DP and I don't have children together, but if his family members wanted him Christened/Baptised/attend church/whatever I'm sorry but nothing should trump my beliefs simply because they are religious and I'm not.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    My DP and I are both athiest/agnostic but he comes from a strong religious background. My belief is that children should be free to choose their own beliefs and not have anything forced on them. This includes my beliefs. If he asks, I will tell him what I believe, and what some other people believe, but this doesn't make it true - it's a belief.

    Unfortunately, because DP is from a strong religious history my DS receives religious gifts/poems/cards at every event and there are certain family members strongly forcing their beliefs on him.

    He's not related to them. It's extremely disrespectful toward my belief that children are free to choose their own path in life, free from indoctrination and manipulation. Thankfully DP and I don't have children together, but if his family members wanted him Christened/Baptised/attend church/whatever I'm sorry but nothing should trump my beliefs simply because they are religious and I'm not.
    Nobody is saying that. Take my husband and I, 2/3 of our kids are christened. Why? It was really important to my husband. I don't see the big deal. My children do not live a religious life at all, apart from easter and Christmas, they have never been to a church, apart from their christening day, and probably wouldn't even know what a church is if they saw one or heard the word. We didn't get married in a church, we don't go to church, nothing.

    I find it a bit much that people are saying being christened harms a child and I would be interested to hear why people think my children have been hurt in some way because of it!

  3. #103
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    OP I think all you can do is weigh it all up - if it's just water on a baby's head to you then it's not such a big deal for the sake of family tranquility... But if it would upset you or you feel strongly against it then you need to stick by your beliefs and ask him why he hasn't shown any religious inclination until now and can he compromise and wait until your child can make up their own mind later.

    And don't let him blame you to his family! That is not fair!

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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I find it a bit much that people are saying being christened harms a child and I would be interested to hear why people think my children have been hurt in some way because of it!
    I'm not sure what you mean 'nobody is saying that' I was giving my own story to reiterate why baptism isn't essential for babies with one religious and one non-religious parent (and yes, Olin has stated that the religion trumps the non-religion).

    A PP mentioned her husband hates the fact he was baptised and he is a grown man.

    It would harm my child at the age of 7 because he would understand what's going on. If he were a brand new baby certain family members would take this to mean they can continue to force their beliefs on us/him - separate to your situation.

    ETA: in your situation BRV I'd do the same thing. Unfortunately it's different for different families and has different consequences.
    Last edited by Benji; 18-04-2013 at 10:57.

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Olin, I think this thread proves that religion is also not one belief, one tradition. The parent in question who wants the child baptised doesn't attend church!!

    I'm not quite sure how you can tell others what their culture is or isn't. My family has a strong culture, we're just don't attach ourselves to any one religion.
    I haven't told anyone what their culture is. But I don't believe Atheism is a culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    You said that religion usually trumps because it's deep seated in tradition/culture. The OP clearly stated the parent wanting the child baptised doesn't even attend church - that doesn't sound like a strong culture to me.
    Yes but I think the culture in his example is more important than the actual church, as I exaplained in my first post, wanting a baptism isn't always about wanting them to be part of the church, it can be just a tradition or cultural want within the family and I don't see the harm in that *for me

    But I don't think its right to teach your child only one parents beliefs or culture/traditions/religion and completely reject the other. If you are having a child with a catholic or a muslim or a buddhist or a jew, then you must be open and accepting of what they believe, their families traditions etc. because whether you like it or not, your kids will be part of that.
    If you are against something and don't accept something, I think having children with someone with completely differing views and beliefs will be a challenge, because the religion will trump. And when I say trump, I mean they will be exposed to the religion whether you like it or not. If you marry a muslim for example, your kids (according to their religion) will automatically be muslim, in a more modern example, the children will be exposed to it and the families traditions and beliefs will become part of that childs upbringing.
    I don't mean it trumps and you exclude your beliefs altogether, how can you? Ofcourse you can't, but in my belief, the children of parents with mixed beliefs will or should be exposed and apart of both. Either way they will decide for themselves eventually.

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean 'nobody is saying that' I was giving my own story to reiterate why baptism isn't essential for babies with one religious and one non-religious parent (and yes, Olin has stated that the religion trumps the non-religion).

    A PP mentioned her husband hates the fact he was baptised and he is a grown man.

    It would harm my child at the age of 7 because he would understand what's going on. If he were a brand new baby certain family members would take this to mean they can continue to force their beliefs on us/him - separate to your situation.
    He might hate it, but how has it hurt him? As pp said, it's not permanent like circumcision and he isn't bound to that religion forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    He might hate it, but how has it hurt him? As pp said, it's not permanent like circumcision and he isn't bound to that religion forever.
    That's not up to me to decide how somebody else feels, he owns his feelings.

  9. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    But I don't think its right to teach your child only one parents beliefs or culture/traditions/religion and completely reject the other. If you are having a child with a catholic or a muslim or a buddhist or a jew, then you must be open and accepting of what they believe, their families traditions etc. because whether you like it or not, your kids will be part of that.
    I do agree. I don't agree that this means that the religious parent decides whether the child is baptised or not.

  10. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Nobody is saying that. Take my husband and I, 2/3 of our kids are christened. Why? It was really important to my husband. I don't see the big deal. My children do not live a religious life at all, apart from easter and Christmas, they have never been to a church, apart from their christening day, and probably wouldn't even know what a church is if they saw one or heard the word. We didn't get married in a church, we don't go to church, nothing.

    I find it a bit much that people are saying being christened harms a child and I would be interested to hear why people think my children have been hurt in some way because of it!
    This I find offensive. Why bother with the ceremony then? You promise to do something then renegade on it. I'm not singling your family out BRV but any family that does it.

    Its like getting married then cheating on your partner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Yes but I think the culture in his example is more important than the actual church, as I exaplained in my first post, wanting a baptism isn't always about wanting them to be part of the church, it can be just a tradition or cultural want within the family and I don't see the harm in that *for me

    But I don't think its right to teach your child only one parents beliefs or culture/traditions/religion and completely reject the other. If you are having a child with a catholic or a muslim or a buddhist or a jew, then you must be open and accepting of what they believe, their families traditions etc. because whether you like it or not, your kids will be part of that.
    If you are against something and don't accept something, I think having children with someone with completely differing views and beliefs will be a challenge, because the religion will trump. And when I say trump, I mean they will be exposed to the religion whether you like it or not. If you marry a muslim for example, your kids (according to their religion) will automatically be muslim, in a more modern example, the children will be exposed to it and the families traditions and beliefs will become part of that childs upbringing.
    I don't mean it trumps and you exclude your beliefs altogether, how can you? Ofcourse you can't, but in my belief, the children of parents with mixed beliefs will or should be exposed and apart of both. Either way they will decide for themselves eventually.
    I think it's a shame you are so dismissive of atheism. The parent wanting the baptism isn't even practicing. It frustrates me how some people view religion are making them impervious to any questioning. They think christian means they can do and say what they want. That it's ok to marginalise minority groups, that somehow their beliefs are more important than those that don't believe. Yes the child would, and should be made aware of both parents beliefs. That doesn't automatically mean the religious parent trumps the atheist.

    As an atheist it's frustrating to feel like I constantly have to be respectful of those that are religious but it is rarely returned.

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