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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I also don't think it's right to exclude a parents beliefs altogether. If you are fiercely against something and don't want your children learning that, then you must re consider having children with that person.
    By this, I'm assuming you mean that you don't think it's right to exclude a parent's belief (which may include that it would be morally objectionable to get a child baptised into a particular faith)?

    So, you don't believe that it would be right for the religious parent to overrule the non-religious parent's belief that a particular church/ organised religion is against their personal ethics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ponytail View Post
    I mean think about it logically - believer or not, it's an old dude in a funny dress rambling on about the phases of life and he then tips some water on the kids head. Will it change your child physically? No. Will it change your child mentally at this age? No. Will your child remember the ceremony and ask questions? No. Will your child be forever bound to the church? No.If you don't believe in it then having it done shouldnt bother you
    Because your own (non-religious) beliefs may mean that you view organised religion as a negative (not just neutral) thing.

    It may just be an old dude in a dress to you (and that's fine), but to others it may represent something that sits very much against their own personal code of ethics and morality, and is something that they consider to be wrong.

    I think a lot of people mistakenly believe that all atheists are neutral when it comes to religion, when many are actively opposed to it and view it as immoral.

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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    Nothing belongs to atheism, any belief or tradition you have is yours individually.
    Um no... Collectively, atheists recognise the damage that blind faith does in the world and in individual people's lives. Athiests a don't support a cult-like indoctrination that limits people's choices and worse, imposes rules on how people live their lives. Atheism supports a secular lifestyle, freedom of the mind and recognises scientific fact. Atheism recognises that religion segregates people and that such segregation is dangerous and causes war and intolerance. I don't think that amounts to 'nothing'.

    What exactly are you arguing here? That the OP's husband is automatically right because (in your view) her beliefs amount to 'nothing'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    This doesn't make sense. There are certain traditions cultures and beliefs that do belong to individual religions and is specific to them.
    Nothing belongs to atheism, any belief or tradition you have is yours individually. There is nothing organised about atheism and to want claim to that is hypocritical isn't it?
    And what's wrong with a family culture/history/tradition? Why is a religious one (in this case Catholic) more important that it must 'trump' another family's traditions?

    I disagree that athiests have no common beliefs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    So? That doesn't mean all culture or tradition belongs to religion either. Some religions have these things. Some cultures and traditions exists that have nothing to do with religion. And some families have traditions that are atheist. I don't know why you call yourself open yet wont accept this.
    I never said you can't have a tradition within your family and I never said cultures and traditions exist only in religion. But 'Atheism' isn't a culture or tradition or 1 set of beliefs. The only common factor is a lack of belief in God. Modern day atheism is becoming a religion and I think that's where you are coming from,wanting to lay claim to evolution, science, reason, humanism and be a group under the heading Atheist. Which is fine to do just like any other religion, but I won't accept your claim to any of those things as defining atheism because it doesn't belong to atheism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    And what's wrong with a family culture/history/tradition? Why is a religious one (in this case Catholic) more important that it must 'trump' another family's traditions?

    I disagree that athiests have no common beliefs.
    When I said trump as I explained earlier, I don't think it's right to exclude it altogether and you * can have both.

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    Olin, I think this thread proves that religion is also not one belief, one tradition. The parent in question who wants the child baptised doesn't attend church!!

    I'm not quite sure how you can tell others what their culture is or isn't. My family has a strong culture, we're just don't attach ourselves to any one religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    I never said you can't have a tradition within your family and I never said cultures and traditions exist only in religion. But 'Atheism' isn't a culture or tradition or 1 set of beliefs. The only common factor is a lack of belief in God. Modern day atheism is becoming a religion and I think that's where you are coming from,wanting to lay claim to evolution, science, reason, humanism and be a group under the heading Atheist. Which is fine to do just like any other religion, but I won't accept your claim to any of those things as defining atheism because it doesn't belong to atheism.
    Do you really think every other person belonging to your religion, or even to your own church, shares your beliefs exactly??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olin View Post
    When I said trump as I explained earlier, I don't think it's right to exclude it altogether and you * can have both.
    You said that religion usually trumps because it's deep seated in tradition/culture. The OP clearly stated the parent wanting the child baptised doesn't even attend church - that doesn't sound like a strong culture to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    I don't think anyone's suggesting it would guarantee the relationship to stay forever but it's a heck of a good start if you're both on the same page with some big questions. I'm guessing if R&A's future partner had said that they were atheist (or anything other than a practicing Catholic) then both would then be able to consider how important it was to them that their religious beliefs reconciled and either stay together or move on.

    I simply could not be in a relationship with someone who is religious. It just wouldn't work. Like I think it was said by Sassy, I am not just atheist, I am actively anti-religion. I just wouldn't gel with someone who didn't share these beliefs. If I was seeking a new long term partner there would be no point if they didn't have similar views.
    I guess it comes down to what's important. I'm not religious at all, I don't identify as atheist or agnostic etc. I'm not anything. Being religious or anti-religion is not important to me. I certainly don't want my children educated in a religious school, and unless my husband was telling me how to live my life and raise the kids, then I could not care less what religion he was. My husband is catholic. he's not practicing, but there are some things important to him. However, it's certainly not something I would have discussed on our first few dates.


 

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