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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Crow View Post
    I dont know what else to call this (falling pregnant on purpose without your partners consent). For singles its called trapping, but for couples i dont know.


    Would you purposefully try to fall pregnant if your partner was either against or undecided on having more kids? Assuming you already have kids together, what's another?
    haven't read any of the posts apart from your one.

    I wouldn't do it. I have wanted another for ages but DH didn't. Then just at the right time he changed his mind.

    I wouldn't want to bring a child into the world through deceit. I don't think it says a lot for the point you are in a relationship if you feel the need to do this. It also isn't the best start for a kid. It is so much better to have a baby when you are both wanting it because gosh it is hard enough even then!

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    I want 3 but DF is adamant he wants 2 only atm. I know later on he may change his mind and I will help on that but know how much resentment there would be if I accidentally on purpose got PG with a 3rd if he still didn't want them then. I want 3 as we are both the middle child and I loved that as did my parents but he says he parents always say his younger brother was an accident and a mistake not very nice as do mates who each have 3 kids and they resent their 3rd, 1 of them resents all 3 kids as the 1st was an accident at 19 then parents became involved and harassed them to get married 5 years later and 3 kids they still didn't love each other and now are divorced. DF sees this as the be all and end all of having 3 kids doesn't see happy stories who like my parents who tried for 3 and had 4 pregnancies, and my friends who all have 2-4 kids each and are very happy.

    Will just have to persuade when the time comes but not enforce it as I know no good will come of it

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    Because when you enter a marriage contract its also assumed sex will be involved, but if one party decides against it then thats the end of the matter. Rape is not acceptable.
    It's not the end of the matter until both parties come to a mutual agreement. You assume that rape is present in a situation where consent is withdrawn. If sex is no longer consensual then the marriage/r'ship ends or it continues with the parties understanding that no sex takes place, a variation of the contract if you like. To that end, it's impossible for the woman to become pregnant. This is why we are working with the premise that sex is present as the woman concerned intends to get pregnant (unless you are suggesting that she is raping him) but that the permission to have kids is not. So then if the consent to have another child ends, the marriage ends or you compromise.

    So, using your equation, if a woman chooses to get pregnant against her partner's wishes, is it stealing? Does this then mean that the partner is exonerated from all fiscal liability in raising the result of said pregnancy?

    I concur with Benji's comment. And while for some life isn't black and white, it is for others. SassyMummy also raises some very pertinent questions - what happens when the child gets older, a key facet that is ignored and is duly ignored in this thread.

    And while there are some who commented on my earlier post to say they hoped they weren't misunderstanding it and yet failed to actually write what their actual concern was, I find it unsurprising that no one has answered the question I posed. That, for me, says it all about today's society and its attitude towards parenting and the responsibilities it entails.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by wobblermummy View Post
    I want 3 but DF is adamant he wants 2 only atm. I know later on he may change his mind and I will help on that but know how much resentment there would be if I accidentally on purpose got PG with a 3rd if he still didn't want them then. I want 3 as we are both the middle child and I loved that as did my parents but he says he parents always say his younger brother was an accident and a mistake not very nice as do mates who each have 3 kids and they resent their 3rd, 1 of them resents all 3 kids as the 1st was an accident at 19 then parents became involved and harassed them to get married 5 years later and 3 kids they still didn't love each other and now are divorced. DF sees this as the be all and end all of having 3 kids doesn't see happy stories who like my parents who tried for 3 and had 4 pregnancies, and my friends who all have 2-4 kids each and are very happy.

    Will just have to persuade when the time comes but not enforce it as I know no good will come of it
    My brother has three kids - he was happy with two and his wife wanted four so three was the compromise (plus a puppy ) and they are very happy.

    The resentment can work both ways though - if you 'accidentally' get utd your husband may resent you/child or if you don't have another then you might resent your husband. Both situations will probably end badly as resentment can destroy relationships.

    I'm sure in the same situation i would try to persuade my partner to have another...i honestly don't know how women who say its gut wrenching they cant have another child can live with themselves. I would be miserable and don't think I could more on with my life tbh. Its just something that I value that highly. I certainly wouldn't trick my partner into having another but if he refused and we couldn't come to some agreement it would just naturally destroy the relationship.

    Also, you only live once. If i accepted to have less children than I wanted because dh said so then i would never have an opportunity to have more children ever again. I couldnt live with that.

    Someone who wants to trick their partner into having children needs to sit down and have a pretty deep conversation with dp/dh.
    Last edited by AdornedWithCats; 08-04-2013 at 13:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    It's not the end of the matter until both parties come to a mutual agreement. You assume that rape is present in a situation where consent is withdrawn. If sex is no longer consensual then the marriage/r'ship ends or it continues with the parties understanding that no sex takes place, a variation of the contract if you like. To that end, it's impossible for the woman to become pregnant. This is why we are working with the premise that sex is present as the woman concerned intends to get pregnant (unless you are suggesting that she is raping him) but that the permission to have kids is not. So then if the consent to have another child ends, the marriage ends or you compromise.

    So, using your equation, if a woman chooses to get pregnant against her partner's wishes, is it stealing? Does this then mean that the partner is exonerated from all fiscal liability in raising the result of said pregnancy?

    I concur with Benji's comment. And while for some life isn't black and white, it is for others. SassyMummy also raises some very pertinent questions - what happens when the child gets older, a key facet that is ignored and is duly ignored in this thread.

    And while there are some who commented on my earlier post to say they hoped they weren't misunderstanding it and yet failed to actually write what their actual concern was, I find it unsurprising that no one has answered the question I posed. That, for me, says it all about today's society and its attitude towards parenting and the responsibilities it entails.
    I have no idea what question you posed (tbh I found your post impossible to follow) but your remarks about IVF being abhorrent to you were what I hoped I had misunderstood. Even if that is your opinion, what does it have to do with the topic?

    It shows an alarming insensitivity, particularly given the number of people on here who have to use IVF. Yes the world would be lovely if no one was infertile, but people are, technology exists to help them and thankfully views such as those you expressed are irrelevant to that occurring.

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  8. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    It's not the end of the matter until both parties come to a mutual agreement. You assume that rape is present in a situation where consent is withdrawn. If sex is no longer consensual then the marriage/r'ship ends or it continues with the parties understanding that no sex takes place, a variation of the contract if you like. To that end, it's impossible for the woman to become pregnant. This is why we are working with the premise that sex is present as the woman concerned intends to get pregnant (unless you are suggesting that she is raping him) but that the permission to have kids is not. So then if the consent to have another child ends, the marriage ends or you compromise.

    So, using your equation, if a woman chooses to get pregnant against her partner's wishes, is it stealing? Does this then mean that the partner is exonerated from all fiscal liability in raising the result of said pregnancy?

    I concur with Benji's comment. And while for some life isn't black and white, it is for others. SassyMummy also raises some very pertinent questions - what happens when the child gets older, a key facet that is ignored and is duly ignored in this thread.

    And while there are some who commented on my earlier post to say they hoped they weren't misunderstanding it and yet failed to actually write what their actual concern was, I find it unsurprising that no one has answered the question I posed. That, for me, says it all about today's society and its attitude towards parenting and the responsibilities it entails.
    I think i either didnt explain myself clearly or you deliberately misunderstood what i was saying.

    If, as you say, a marriage comes with the understanding of children and therefor if one party renegs on their side of the contract by deciding not to have children, then this makes it okay for the other party to take matters into their own hands and produce a child regardless then the same logic can be applied to sex in a marriage. If one party decides they dont want sex anymore, end of story, then because they have reneged on their side of the marriage contract, which is the understanding that sex will be involved, then its fine for the other party to take matters into their own hands and rape their partner or have an affair.

    This doesnt sit right with me. I feel for the women whose partners dont want more children, i really do, id find that heart breaking if i were in the same situation, but i would have the choice to either leave the relationship and find a more suitable partner or use a sperm bank/donor or live in a relationship with no children. This would be my choice. I cannot force children onto a partner who is adament they dont want them.

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  10. #177
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    What a terrible situation and absolutely dishonest. I could never bring myself to do that to someone I loved.
    I would love a 3rd child but my DP doesn't, so I am ok with that I have two healthy girls and if he isn't ready well I leave it at that. I would never bring a child into the world that was unwanted by that other parent. How sad for the child. I would just see a relationship ending badly to be honest.

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    Happy wander

    I'm guessing your question is why it's ok to do ivf or sperm banks but not ok to have a child with someone you know.
    Ill answer you
    1 having ivf/ sperm bank a a single person does not affect the father at all. The donor has decided to donate his sperm for these reasons. This pregnancy is something you planned have decided to take all the responsibilities your self. You are not forcing anything onto the other person.
    2. As this conversation is about women trapping there partner by falling pregnant without their consent. I believe the question you asked is irrelevant which is y no body answered it, if two people are having sex by consent with the knowledge that a pregnancy may occur then sure by all means. But if one does not want anymore children/ a child tampering with birth control is wrong wrong wrong.

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    I can't imagine the dispair one must feel when 1 partner says no and you see your time just ticking by but to trap someone into having a baby? That's a pretty harsh act- you can't turn your back on this child, but this wasn't your choice. Than again, why trust someone else with the prevention of something you feel so very strong about.

    I think don't allow such important decisions in the hands of others. If you don't want it- prevent it. Simple!

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  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyMum View Post
    I can't imagine the dispair one must feel when 1 partner says no and you see your time just ticking by but to trap someone into having a baby? That's a pretty harsh act- you can't turn your back on this child, but this wasn't your choice. Than again, why trust someone else with the prevention of something you feel so very strong about.

    I think don't allow such important decisions in the hands of others. If you don't want it- prevent it. Simple!
    But what happens if the contraceptives are tampered with? Or what happens if someone apparently foolishly trusts their partner to take the pill, if thats the method both people have decided on and the woman stops without telling the man? Or are you advocating a man force an early abortion on his partner by sneaking one of those abortion pillow things(I can‘t remember the name) into her drink after the fact?

    I understand accidents happen but tampering with contraceptives is hardly an accident.

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