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  1. #111
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    If someone finds it 'easy' to deceive their partner, they're not the kind of person who should consider themselves a good role model for children, or capable of being a responsible and mature parent.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlotchedTabby View Post
    I'm just clarifying (and hoping it really doesn't need clarifying) but your needs and wants are just as important as your husbands needs and wants (and vice versa).
    I absolutely agree. But I also believe that when needs and wants are incompatible, then one partner should never use deception or force to overcome the other partner's wants.

    I can think of a few circumstances where 'no' should be respected, and the other party should not try to force the other into something just because they want it.

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  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlotchedTabby View Post
    My mum picked one out of a singles magazine

    Fyi...the time it takes to separate/divorce/find a new man who likes your kids and wants to start ttc depends on the people involved. As i said before, it took my mum 15 months from her first husband walking out on her to her and my dad conceiving my brother...both of them were in their 30s. So it is possible.
    Possible, but highly improbable. Not something I would bet my future on, that's for sure!

    Look I wouldn't do it either, as I said earlier in the thread DD's dad and I broke up because of (among other things) him not wanting more kids. But I certainly can sympathize with someone being in such a dilemma doing something not so admirable out of desperation.

    The compulsion to procreate isn't exactly rational, otherwise we would all stop at two.

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  7. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by wantingtostart View Post
    Well I would deserve it for leading him on. I could get an abortion if he did that anyway.
    So you can't see any reason that someone could change their mind on something over a 10 year period?

    It's not 'leading someone on' if you genuinely have a change of heart.

    And even if someone did 'lead someone on' then does that mean they deserve whatever they get? Again, I can think of a few situations where you could apply that logic too...

    I can't comprehend that this is actually your genuine opinion, wantingtostart.

    Quote Originally Posted by wantingtostart View Post
    The children would be wanted by me. And why would his wants for a small family override my wants for a large family?
    But not by the father. And it may split up the relationship, and leave any previous children in a broken relationship too. And they would have to live with that forever. You only seem to be thinking of yourself.

    Because in this instance, the right for someone to say no outweighs what you want. I appreciate how devastating that would be (if your partner said no more kids), but there are a few circumstances in which that decision (to say no) outweighs yours - and using force/ manipulation/ deception to get what you want is simply wrong.

    I can't imagine how anyone in a loving relationship could be prepared to betray their spouse in that way.

    You also didn't answer my question. What if he were infertile? Would you leave, or would you have an affair?

  8. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    I absolutely agree. But I also believe that when needs and wants are incompatible, then one partner should never use deception or force to overcome the other partner's wants.

    I can think of a few circumstances where 'no' should be respected, and the other party should not try to force the other into something just because they want it.
    Yes, i agree that you shouldn't deceive your partner. But you shouldn't sacrifice your dreams because its not compatible with your partner's wishes. It could lead to resentment and destroy your relationship anyway.

    My point really was I was getting worried about all the women who said they didn't have more children because their dh didn't want any...what happened to the woman's desires? Its ok if its the compromise you both came too but as others have said: wanting more children is just as valid as not wanting any more children. Its very hard to compromised between these two positions and neither partner should feel forced to go along with the other wishes just to conserve the relationship.

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  10. #116
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    I have waited so so very long for a baby and I wouldn't do it. Sometimes I wish I could, or that my body could produce a baby on its own. I can empathise with why people would do it, although not to trap, but because they naturally yearn for a baby.

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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post

    Because in this instance, the right for someone to say no outweighs what you want. I appreciate how devastating that would be (if your partner said no more kids), but there are a few circumstances in which that decision (to say no) outweighs yours - and using force/ manipulation/ deception to get what you want is simply wrong.
    I disagree with this (not the deception bit - i agree 'trapping' is wrong).

    If you are in a happy, married/defacto relationship and one partner wants more children and the other doesn't want more children, i believe that each 'want' is of equal weight.

    Someone not wanting more children - saying 'no' to more children - does not outweight someone wanting more children.

    Tbh it complete disgusts me that you think that peoples desire/dream for more children should be disregarded in that way.

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  14. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlotchedTabby View Post
    Yes, i agree that you shouldn't deceive your partner. But you shouldn't sacrifice your dreams because its not compatible with your partner's wishes. It could lead to resentment and destroy your relationship anyway.

    My point really was I was getting worried about all the women who said they didn't have more children because their dh didn't want any...what happened to the woman's desires? Its ok if its the compromise you both came too but as others have said: wanting more children is just as valid as not wanting any more children. Its very hard to compromised between these two positions and neither partner should feel forced to go along with the other wishes just to conserve the relationship.
    It's a very sad situation if both parties can't agree, and I agree that neither should be forced into doing something they don't want - which sometimes means that the relationship will break down.

    If both parties can't agree then the only options are for one party to compromise and go along with the other's wishes - or for them to separate. Forcing the other person into it by deception is not an option - or, rather, should not be an option.

    Not to labour the point, but as a comparison, what if one party loses their sex drive?

    If they love each other then they will work to overcome a problem, but if the problem can't be overcome (e.g., one person no longer wants a sexual relationship), then it may be the case that the relationship has to end. (If neither party can live with the alternative, that is.) It doesn't mean the other person has the right to force the one who doesn't want it to have sex. And, in this instance, their right to say no DOES outweigh the other person's wish for them to say yes.

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  16. #119
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    In the same way it's not OK for a man to force a woman to have sex against her will, it's not OK for a woman to force a man to have a baby against his will.

    Despicable.

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  18. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    In the same way it's not OK for a man to force a woman to have sex against her will, it's not OK for a woman to force a man to have a baby against his will.

    Despicable.
    Thanks VP, as usual, in a nutshell people!

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