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  1. #61
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    I agree

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachHasArrived View Post
    The child wasn't anxious at all or stressed, he does not have anxiety. He simply wanted to make sure he got the answers correct. An assessment from me would be a true indication of his abilities. Labelling him with anxiety would actually be detrimental for him.

    I take offence to you suggesting the child guessing the answers right was far fetched. It has actually happened to me twice in my teaching career in two very different schools. Once at an aboriginal remote community where English is their second language and once at a main****** school (the example I was referring to). I guess they were 'lucky'. Proves that NAPLAN has to be taken with a grain of salt and teachers assessment and judgement is far more valuable. It is one test on one day.
    I am sorry you are offended..but, knowing of 2 children out of thousands does show that it is incredibly unlikely to happen. I am not trying to offend you but trying to have a discussion on the topic of naplan.

    A child that has to double and triple check answers is experiencing anxiety...they are clearly concerned about the outcome and being "perfect"...they need some guidance on how to do tests. Not for the sake of Naplan but for their own future. Knowing to work through the test and only go back and redo once you have finished is an important lesson...and again i think this is better learnt earlier rather than later.

    There is a big delay between naplan sitting and results...but hopefully, it can still be used...for example if a child did poorly on one area, the teacher could show the parent where they are now and they can see progrss or lack of and go from there.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Song View Post
    There is a big delay between naplan sitting and results...but hopefully, it can still be used...for example if a child did poorly on one area, the teacher could show the parent where they are now and they can see progress or lack of and go from there.
    I don't have kids doing naplan yet (it's next year for us) but I think the whole point of what the teachers on here are saying is that naplan isn't designed to be used for that purpose as it's a comparative test. DD1's teacher know exactly where she should be on the curriculum and can tell me in 5 minutes how she's doing and can point to tests they do each week in class to explain her progress. Naplan might be an "extra" tool, but I think there are better ways for teachers to track a child's progress.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Song View Post
    I never said it was that you were not putting the work in...i said it was a political statement to not give them the chance to see the format of the test until 5 minutes before they have to do it. Teachers work incredibly hard and the end all and be all is NOT naplan. I have never said that and would never think or say it...my view is that it is PART of our system and I will never send a child into anything unprepared if I can easily avoid it.

    Fine don't do a worksheet...do some examples on the board. Get the kids to make up their own questions and answers for maths or english. If you already do all the writing (which i said earlier that I assume that you do) then it is a non issue.

    You seem to think I am saying that naplan is the only way to assess progress but I am not. Teachers do not always give out info as requested...sometimes due to lack of time and sometimes for probably 100 other reasons....but, as a parent, this is not helpful.

    I love the idea of cooking them brekky and making it fun and special...if you see it that way...then why not give them the benefit of having seen they format before they walk into the room?

    For some of the examples given...they child who (due to anxiety) scored well below capability...this shows his/her teacher that they need some help with stress. Finding this out in year 3 is a good thing as it gives them (and the parents) time to help them with it. If they are a high performing student, they may well want to apply for scholarships and it is much better to find out in Year 3 instead of when they sit that first selective entry test.

    For the child who guessed all the right answers...this seems far fetched but I guess they could be lucky.

    No, at Uni I have not covered Naplan at all. We have covered a lot about the National Curric and in discussions it has come up. My opinions are a combination of my education training and being a parent (my son sitting Naplan this year and my niece sat it last year along with many of my friends kids).

    My view is that either extreme view is not in the best interest of the kids...that it is part of our system and so needs to be integrated into the Year 3 curric, not allowed to take over it, but part of it. It is about balance, just as much as the parents choosing schools need to be balanced in how they use the info, the schools need to be balanced and fair in how they deal with it in class.

    Tamtam - you describe my ideal situation...it does not take over but examples are given in class so that they don't walk into the room having never seen it before. My objection is that BRV is saying that the 5 minutes before they do the exam is all the kids get and that all that matters is they can colour in a circle...i find this overly harsh.
    I find this post really patronising. Giving me advice on what I should be doing, lol! I am happy with the way I teach and so are the parents! They can come to me at any time and discuss their child's progress.

    The fact is naplan is a diagnostic tool. It is not and will not ever be part of the curriculum. It's a snapshot. I believe integrating it into the curriculum is teaching to the test which is absurd considering its is only done twice in the whole of primary school.

    I can't remember the last time I did a test, so to argue that this is a valid reason to do it is a bit futile.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by River Song View Post
    I am sorry you are offended..but, knowing of 2 children out of thousands does show that it is incredibly unlikely to happen. I am not trying to offend you but trying to have a discussion on the topic of naplan.

    A child that has to double and triple check answers is experiencing anxiety...they are clearly concerned about the outcome and being "perfect"...they need some guidance on how to do tests. Not for the sake of Naplan but for their own future. Knowing to work through the test and only go back and redo once you have finished is an important lesson...and again i think this is better learnt earlier rather than later.

    There is a big delay between naplan sitting and results...but hopefully, it can still be used...for example if a child did poorly on one area, the teacher could show the parent where they are now and they can see progrss or lack of and go from there.
    I believe it would be more than 2 out of thousands, since I myself haven't taught thousands of kids and I'm sure there are other teachers that have had the same situation. You can believe that the child had anxiety if you want, he was just a careful boy who liked to make sure he read the qns properly and did the best he could. He certainly wasn't stressed out, but anyway. You can also advise students to go back and check after, which I do (and you clearly stated that i don't) but on the day they will do what they want to do, and you aren't allowed to interfere in any way.

    I did have a child that experienced anxiety- they unfortunately couldn't write a single word in year 3 (was still working on his initial sounds) and struggled during the writing assessment. He ended up crying. He saw all the other students in the class writing and wasn't allowed to ask for any help. I could and did show his parents where he was academically using real assessments i had done with him. NAPLAN for him was a real struggle and i felt for him. I had also worked on other examples with him before where he could draw a picture and write underneath. These were the examples I used with his parents as they were done in an environment where he felt safe to have a go.

    You can show progress or lack of in better ways with your own teaching and assessment, rather than using NAPLAN. It is much more meaningful, authentic and comprehensive than a snapshot of one day made up of mostly multiple choice questions.

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    ok, i give up... we will have to agree to disagree.

    When I try and look for compromise I get told I am patronising...when i state my view you simply try and prove me wrong. You are not interested in discussion or considering points of view, you are interested in being right.

    Naplan is part of our system, like it or don't like it...not my freaking problem. BUT, i stand by my view that sending kids into a test with not the slightest bit of prep is not in anyone's best interest apart from the schools looking to exaggerate the statistical growth shown from year 3 to Year 5.

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    Rose&Aurelia&Hannah  (23-03-2013)

  8. #67
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    I'm really interested to know from anyone who can explain how statistical growth from grade 3-5 is preferable? I mean as opposed to good results all round? It really informs very little (I won't go into this) other than to rate schools on this particular tests performance. To people looking at schools schools and comparing them then, wouldn't all round good scores look much better than growth? I mean, statistically literacy success at very least has huge, undeniable links to success in the early years. So wouldn't people who care about NAPLAN results care if it seemed as though as school underperformed in the early years???

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tootsiegirl View Post
    I'm really interested to know from anyone who can explain how statistical growth from grade 3-5 is preferable? I mean as opposed to good results all round? It really informs very little (I won't go into this) other than to rate schools on this particular tests performance. To people looking at schools schools and comparing them then, wouldn't all round good scores look much better than growth? I mean, statistically literacy success at very least has huge, undeniable links to success in the early years. So wouldn't people who care about NAPLAN results care if it seemed as though as school underperformed in the early years???
    From my school's perspective, I guess it means we are somehow closing the gap.

    Our school might be seen to be "under performing" according to myschool, but naplan doesn't take into consideration the backgrounds of students. Our students are way behind the 8 ball before even starting school. Many parents did not complete high school, very low income, huge proportion of single parent families, high indigenous population. Most of our children come to school not knowing how to recognise or write their name, not being read to (many children don't even have reading books at home). no basic number recognition or even counting. So we have a lot to catch up, and we do it pretty well, but to those looking at the myschool website would label us as an under performing school, but I think it's quite the opposite
    Last edited by BigRedV; 22-03-2013 at 19:51.

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  11. #69
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    Ah! Thanks bRv. Can I guess from that then that the 'like' schools are not as well grouped and then compared (and data reported) as we are led to believe? Our school does ok, no red but we couldn't care less. Our principal would be questioning it if we jumped to really high as for a no worksheet, developmental learning school, if our kids were better equipped to deal with unrealistic paper questions that involve very little real life problem solving and unrealistic situations he'd want to know how our days are spent in the classroom

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    BigRedV  (23-03-2013)

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    I do prep the kids to an extent. My replies were to explain that I don't agree with the way NAPLAN is conducted, the test scores don't always prove where the students are at, and there are much better ways to assess how a student is going. NAPLAN is one of the last things I look at when I am assessing/reporting. Sorry if it came across any different.

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    BigRedV  (23-03-2013)


 

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