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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    In answer to yours, I don't know with certainty if you are right or wrong. Another poster mentioned sea temps and other factors that need to be taken in to account- it seems like you have ignored those so there is every chance you are wrong.
    I did not ignore sea temps. The datasets are combined land and sea temperature anomalies.

    I have said a statement, and you don't know if it is right or wrong. In that case, my statement still stands.

    If you stopped focusing on me, and more on the topic, this conversation may actually go somewhere.

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Oh sorry father, I forgot it was only you who was allowed to evade/ignore questions!
    In answer to yours, I don't know with certainty if you are right or wrong. Another poster mentioned sea temps and other factors that need to be taken in to account- it seems like you have ignored those so there is every chance you are wrong.

    Your turn. Qualifications?
    It's been asked multiple times and I think we all know the answer. Google.

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    Your "statements " are so cutting edge it might be possible you could apply for an honorary doctorate in climate change science.
    Are you saying that you agree with them?

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funchu View Post
    What money are you proposing we save? How long do we wait? Do you expect that it will be possible to instantaneously develop solutions (or adaption measures) some time in the future?

    I ask again what economic harm there is in providing incentives for clean energy now, so that we can be prepared?

    From a public policy perspective, it is irrelevant whether there has been any "statistically significant" warming for the last 16 years, or whether the rate of warming matches predicted rates of warming. What matters is that effects of climate change have been observed, such as melting polar ice caps, and natural resources are limited; so it makes sense to encourage (& pay for) the development and commercialisation of clean energy technologies. As an added bonus, Australia has the chance to be a world leader in clean energy, which will bring with it huge economic benefit... which might enable us to sustain strong economic growth once the mining boom subsides (see earlier comment regarding finite resources).
    It's good to read a post that actually has content. Thanks.

    We can save money by not spending taxpayers money on it now. How long do we wait is a harder question to answer. Using money for adaption, I would hope, would become obvious as a problem eventuated. ie. sea level rise endangering a town - spend the money on a sea wall. Australia reducing its emissions by 5% will result in a temperature difference of 0.00C (rounded to two decimal places), but we are spending billions on it. This money could be put to much better use.

    Adaption solutions may not be instantaneous. They don't need to be. There is already at least one potential solution for reducing the temperature if we find that we need to.

    The economic harm in Australia is evident. The manufacturing industry has taken a hit with the increased cost of operations. There are countless small businesses that have been pushed over the limit by the increase in electricity prices, tip fees, and refrigerant increases.

    We don't need clean energy now. We have coal in Australia that will sustain us for centuries. I don't think we need to rush technology through before it is ready.

    It is very relevant whether or not it has been warming, and if the models are accurate. Our policies are based upon what these models are telling us. If the models are flawed, then the policies need to be reviewed.

    Again, thanks for a mature post.
    I'm retiring.... for the night.

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I would hope, would become obvious as a problem eventuated. ie. sea level rise endangering a town - spend the money on a sea wall.


    The economic harm in Australia is evident. The manufacturing industry has taken a hit with the increased cost of operations. There are countless small businesses that have been pushed over the limit by the increase in electricity prices, tip fees, and refrigerant increases.

    We don't need clean energy now. We have coal in Australia that will sustain us for centuries. I don't think we need to rush technology through before it is ready.
    Yes, lets not try and stop the water rising in the first place. You do realise that when the sea rises by that much we will have far more to contend with than just the water. The mind truly boggles.

    The way you say "we don't need clean energy now", makes it clear that you know that we are using dirty energy. So I put forward these questions - Who do you think you are? No really, who do you think that you are? That you are so much more important than the earth and any other living creature on it. I am no greenie, but I do feel that we need to take some ownership and treat the planet with a bit of respect, and do all we can do to make sure it is here for a long time and in a healthy way.

    You can post as many graphs as you want, but it is clear that you are not respectful of the earth or anything - including humans in it. Shame on you.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to beebs For This Useful Post:

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  7. #316
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    Oh for the love of Pete! I thought this was thread was dead! Girls I think it's pretty obvious that unless climate change effects father personally he's not going to think its a cause worth trying to prevent or slow. He's made several comments to insinuate this (his most recent 'wait and adapt,' Fukishima didn't have any human deaths so therefore it's not an environmental disaster, it would do the Earth good to warm a little, WAIT until the water starts to creep higher to a town before we decide to change anything, etc) all lean towards the fact father just really doesn't care if the world changes due to climate change, so therefore doesn't care about slowing its progression. He doesn't care that once the water rises that much it probably means that the temperature has risen enough to kill several species of flora and fauna. I'm wondering what he means by adapt? Because surely it'd be hard to help millions of species around the world adapt? I'm assuming he just means humans adapt (ie deal with cities that are close to the water). I also think his big problem is mostly Australia's actions towards climate change, he doesn't think it's a cause Australia needs to waste it's time on (assuming because its not one if the worlds big emitters) and he doesn't seem to care that Australian ecosystems are at risk because after all, we can just move the cities!! Like I said before Ladies, I'm fairly certain any hubbers that read through this thread will see the common sense of it all and fathers comments will be null and void so this argument isn't really worth continuing.

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  9. #317
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    And look what I just learned googling Fukushima! I'm on my phone so the link may not work but if you pop Fukushima in google this video was posted by The Age a half hour ago.
    http://m.media.theage.com.au/selecti...k-4172548.html

  10. #318
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    It's like trying to argue Bodily autonomy with Fred Nile. Or world peace with Kim Jong Un. Or the theory of evolution with the Catholic church. Although you may actually get further with them

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  12. #319
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    Manufacturing companies would have faced rising electricity costs anyway & the government has programs to help manufacturers become more energy efficient, e.g. the Clean Technology Investment Program: http://www.ausindustry.gov.au/progra...s/default.aspx

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  14. #320
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    Yes, of course the high Australian dollar has nothing to do with our manufacturing being in decline.

    Or the fact that everyone buys cheaper stuff from overseas? Which is another thing I feel strongly about, buying Australian made where possible.


 

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