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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    What I do or who I know is irrelevant. Qualifications do not change facts.
    However, one saying that I have seen 'stuff', but then not saying what the 'stuff' is, is pretty weird. I find it amazing that she has seen first hand the effect of 'climate change', but fails to explain how.
    Perhaps I don't want to explain ten years of experience in the field ( which by the way is not much) to yourself because I'd be wasting my energy.

    Do you really find it amazing? Perhaps If you toned down your arguments and weren't so dogmatic people would be more willing to engage in an open discussion with you. You don't want to know about the effects of climate change, I'm sure if I begin to explain you'll run straight to google to find me some "evidence" or a table of stats to refute it. Hence I would be wasting my breath.

    Qualifications determine how facts are interpreted. They also give the ability to weed out real "facts". Everyone these days has a phd from Google though so everyone sitting behind a screen is pretty much an expert. The people ( like Tim Flannery) who devote their lives from teenagers to the research and study of the natural world, have numerous peer reviewed papers and books published, well they are just hacks.
    Last edited by Clementine Grace; 06-04-2013 at 23:01.

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  3. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pregnor View Post
    I can make a general statement about what I have seen, yes. Its called a professional opinion. I were to mention a species, which can then be related to specific project of a client. Yes, I could be sued and lose my job.

    Sent from my HTC One XL using BubHub
    Yes there is a little bit more involved than sending a google link.

  4. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Yep. As I mentioned before, I don't study endangered species.
    Which species had you seen the effect of climate change on?
    What do you "study".

  5. #284
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    http://climatecommission.gov.au/wp-c...es-4.2-Web.pdf

    I really wish I could be bothered enough with your lack of argument to research specifics further. This states that the avg temp has increased by .8 degrees since the 1950s. .8 degrees is a massive change for some species. Species that have adapted to very specific conditions your increase of .15 degrees in a decade is enough.

  6. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    A bit off track, but I did laugh at the link brv posted re: the flat earth society. I surely thought it was a joke - I mean we have pics from space showing the earth to be heliospherical. But amazingly that's explained by conspiracy theories.

    There's hours of fun reading to be found on so many topics on the internet, but weeding out what is factual, what is science, and what sounds like it's researched science, but isn't really is the key issue in helping us educate ourselves this way.
    Fascinating, isn't it? My favourite part is the bit where they explain day and night

    Didn't get an answer from Father, though

  7. #286
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    As an environmental scientist I have been trying not to open this thread as I know it will raise my blood level.

    As previous environmental manager of a nuclear power station in the uk I'm neither for or against nuclear power.

    You can't do what we have done to this planet and expect it to balance out. Cause and effect, with the amount of deforestation and population growth etc the accounts just don't add up anymore.

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  9. #287
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    When I did my post grad degree I did a whole subject on research methods. Yes a whole semester learning how to research. According to Father this was obviously a complete waste of time, as I already knew how to read and google.

    Most reputable unis will have research methodology subjects. This is because there is a lot more to research then most people realise. In these subjects you don't look at the subject matter of your degree, just the methods of researching the subject matter.

    Father, it is a very legitimate question to find out what qualifications you have, so we can understand how robust your research methods are and how much weight we should give them.

    There is also the question of content of your qualifications/experience. Even though both my degrees are in the environmental field, I do not feel qualified or experienced enough to enter most of this debate. I am well aware of the ramifications of operating outside my field (I'm not really keen on being sued or being struck off my professional register).

    I wonder how many environmental impact assessments or environmental management plans you have been involved with Father? Over my 15 year career I have undertaken many and I can say that your comments regarding the environmental impact of wind farms versus coal mines are complete rubbish. Yes on occasion a few individual birds may die in wind turbines (but this is actually quite rare), however this is nothing in comparison to the impacts on entire species (both flora and fauna) and ecosystems that occur with many coal mines. Your lack of knowledge on this one issue alone is enough for me to discredit everything else you say.

    Also I note that you only responded to one of my scenarios in my previous post. The one you clearly believe to be true (no climate change but we have acted anyway). What is your response to the potential risk that there is climate change and we have done nothing? A standard risk assessment using the likelihood and consequence of the event (very common in many industries) will come up with this scenario as requiring a risk mitigation measure. We cannot ignore that there is a risk that this could occur.

    Father

    1. Your qualifications/experience go to the heart of your credibility on this issue. Until you tell us what these are you are doing more harm to your argument than you appear to realise.
    2. What is your response to a standard risk assessment being applied to this situation. What if you are wrong and we have done nothing?

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  11. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Can you explain why the environmental movement is so anti nuclear power?
    Two words - fukushima, Chernobyl

    Can't believe anyone would even need to ask that question. Did you have your tv turned off for the whole of 2011?

    But thank you, you have just proven, with that one question, that there is no point in further debating with you. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, but this has just shown that you on a completely different wave length than the rest of us, and there is just no way you are going to take on board science or fact.

    After all, you just can't argue with.....

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  13. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Nette View Post
    When I did my post grad degree I did a whole subject on research methods. Yes a whole semester learning how to research. According to Father this was obviously a complete waste of time, as I already knew how to read and google.

    Most reputable unis will have research methodology subjects. This is because there is a lot more to research then most people realise. In these subjects you don't look at the subject matter of your degree, just the methods of researching the subject matter.

    Father, it is a very legitimate question to find out what qualifications you have, so we can understand how robust your research methods are and how much weight we should give them.

    There is also the question of content of your qualifications/experience. Even though both my degrees are in the environmental field, I do not feel qualified or experienced enough to enter most of this debate. I am well aware of the ramifications of operating outside my field (I'm not really keen on being sued or being struck off my professional register).

    I wonder how many environmental impact assessments or environmental management plans you have been involved with Father? Over my 15 year career I have undertaken many and I can say that your comments regarding the environmental impact of wind farms versus coal mines are complete rubbish. Yes on occasion a few individual birds may die in wind turbines (but this is actually quite rare), however this is nothing in comparison to the impacts on entire species (both flora and fauna) and ecosystems that occur with many coal mines. Your lack of knowledge on this one issue alone is enough for me to discredit everything else you say.

    Also I note that you only responded to one of my scenarios in my previous post. The one you clearly believe to be true (no climate change but we have acted anyway). What is your response to the potential risk that there is climate change and we have done nothing? A standard risk assessment using the likelihood and consequence of the event (very common in many industries) will come up with this scenario as requiring a risk mitigation measure. We cannot ignore that there is a risk that this could occur.

    Father

    1. Your qualifications/experience go to the heart of your credibility on this issue. Until you tell us what these are you are doing more harm to your argument than you appear to realise.
    2. What is your response to a standard risk assessment being applied to this situation. What if you are wrong and we have done nothing?
    Amen!

  14. #290
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    DJ Nette.

    To answer to your 3 questions.
    - None. I don't think I have to understand the science behind global warming. I think you are getting cause and effect confused.
    - The money saved by waiting can be used an adaption.
    - The money saved by waiting can be used for adaption.


 

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