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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Of course, but you can't punish people who have acted within the law.

    I don't know enough about the case to know whether the doctor was negligent.
    But you can:

    Involuntary manslaughter:

    The act of unlawfully killing another human being unintentionally.
    Most unintentional killings are not murder but involuntary manslaughter. The absence of the element of intent is the key distinguishing factor between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. In most states involuntary manslaughter results from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while performing a legal act, or while committing an act that is unlawful but not felonious.

  2. #102
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    The parents could not be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

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  4. #103
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    Ater a brief looks the facts, I don't see how the doctor could reasonably be charged with negligence either. If coagulation studies are not a requirement for the procedure then how can the doctor be blamed for not ordering them?

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    Hemophilia is caused by a lack of enough factor VIII or IX. In most cases, hemophilia is passed down through families (inherited). It most often affects males.

    so no one in is family knew they carried this? No one thought maybe it would be a good idea to test for it? I think maybe this should open eyes and more testing needs to be done before doing cosmetic surgery on infants. We cant be too safe with babies maybe this will change and more diagnostics will be done before its done. I just feel that this babies life is being brushed aside by the doctors and society as a "it happens opps" and "the circ didnt cause it so oh well"

    I just feel so bad for the baby. I dont feel bad for the parents or the doctors sorry I just dont

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    The parents could not be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

    Thats a shame IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    Thats a shame IMO
    I'm anti-circ, but I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from. The facts are that circumcision is perfectly legal, coagulation tests are not required, and it's unreasonable to assume the parents had any reason to suspect haemophilia.

    I'm all for everyone learning from this sad situation, and I'd love to see it used to bring about change. But insisting that the people involved be punished when they acted within the law doesn't make sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I'm anti-circ, but I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from. The facts are that circumcision is perfectly legal, coagulation tests are not required, and it's unreasonable to assume the parents had any reason to suspect haemophilia.

    I'm all for everyone learning from this sad situation, and I'd love to see it used to bring about change. But insisting that the people involved be punished when they acted within the law doesn't make sense to me.

    I guess it comes from frustration that no one suffered for what happened other then the child. Sure the parents lost their child but only because people wont stand up (doctors) and admit that it is not unnecessary and is harmful. Instead they harp on about benefits that are not proven and keep up a practice that should have died out long ago. Doctors know this is unnecessary and they need to do right by children not by pocket books.

    I think if most parents heard that is is unnecessary and no real good reason to do it right at birth just in case most would not do it until it presented a problem just like our appendix.

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    That would be like blaming, or prosecuting the little boy that Dana mccaffery caught whooping cough off because he was unvaccinated. I am very pro vax, but even I don't think unvaxxed people should be prosecuted for not vaxxing and then passing on diseases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    I guess it comes from frustration that no one suffered for what happened other then the child.
    I've been trying to stay out of this thread because I felt the debate just kept going in circles and I don't have a strong enough opinion for either side (anti or pro) as I can see where both sides come from. But, this comment has my heart beating fast and I can't keep my mouth shut.

    As somebody who just lost their baby by stillbirth I find it infuriating that you think these parents aren't suffering and have insinuated that they be punished. Loosing a baby is THE most painful thing I believe a person could go through. For the rest of your life you have to live with the fact that you have a child you will never get to know or watch grow up. It truly feels like a massive piece of yourself, your body is missing. You have a profound, deep love for a person that will always be missing and it frigging hurts! No matter the circumstances of a child dying I have no doubt that these parents, or any parents that loose their baby, are suffering.

    You do not know enough about this family or their story to make insinuations about why they chose to have a circumcision, what they knew beforehand, how they are dealing with it, etc. From what I know of hemophilia (which it is still not conclusive that this baby had because you are getting your info from a random blog article and not reading this baby's autopsy report-which isn't due back for weeks!) it is prevalent in boys but passed down through the mother (this is what I've heard, I do not know if I am right but will google it). You don't know if this mother or father was adopted and doesn't know her biological family history or if she has no close family members that she would know of with hemophilia so had no way of knowing she was a carrier.

    Whether you agree with it or not, circumcision is legal and many parents choose it feeling they are doing it for their child's future benefit. If you want to see a change then lobby to bring awareness to the cause and try to be understanding of people's intentions rather than throwing stones at them.

    Edit: googled how hemophilia is passed down, very likely a mother can be a carrier and not know. Here is a good link that explains how it is inherited: http://www.livingwithhemophilia.ca/e...ted/index.php#
    Last edited by Kirst33; 14-03-2013 at 13:27.

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  14. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    I guess it comes from frustration that no one suffered for what happened other then the child. Sure the parents lost their child but only because people wont stand up (doctors) and admit that it is not unnecessary and is harmful. Instead they harp on about benefits that are not proven and keep up a practice that should have died out long ago. Doctors know this is unnecessary and they need to do right by children not by pocket books.

    I think if most parents heard that is is unnecessary and no real good reason to do it right at birth just in case most would not do it until it presented a problem just like our appendix.
    I understand the frustration but the most cruel, painful and devastating thing that can happen to a person is to lose a child. The grief would be unbearable. To say they should be punished is like charging a woman who elects a home birth, has no known pregnancy complications, secures the services of a competent and experienced midwife yet the baby tragically dies. Should the mother go to jail? Absolutely not. She should be left alone to grieve in privacy.

    My personal preferences would be that the procedure is not allowed for non-theraputic reasons, however, in the absence of this then higher standards of testing should be done prior to commencement of the surgery.

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