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  1. #61
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    Default Re: I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    Buttermilk, as a 7 year old doing religion at school, we had all sorts of rubbish directly read out of the bible, listened to stories about religious nonsense... We never got any 'fun' colouring in.
    My 6..almost 7 year old came home bawling his eyes out because the religious instructor informed all the children that the non belivers go to hell.
    My son doesn't do religion but is still made to sit in the same class so he hears all the rubbish being rammed down the other kids throats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaShanty View Post
    Oh God (no pun intended), this thread brings up some very old and still-traumatising memories for me...

    I went to a run-of-the-mill public school, at which each child had to specify which religion they were so they could be segregated into appropriate classes when it came time for RE lessons - ie Catholic kids went into one room to be taught by some elderly folk from the local Catholic church, and so forth. My problem was that I was the only child who wasn't baptised and whose migrant parents, despite believing in God themselves but having different religions, couldn't agree on the subject, so I had 'no religion'. Mum was a lot more relaxed about the matter than my hard-line father, who turned against his church (in an organised, institutional sense) and believed that "all churches and priests are corrupt but the Ten Commandments are still a helpful guide for good living". She said that it wouldn't hurt me to learn about different faiths so why didn't I just go along to a class with a different friend each time? Things didn't work out so easily though - the old folks who ran the classes objected to my presence in their classes (which were all various Christian religions), so I had to leave. So what did I do each time there there was an RE class? I had to spend the hour sitting in the classroom of a higher grade (ie the 'big kids'), who also resented my presence. I was so upset by it all I spent the whole time crying. I WAS SIX YEARS OLD! Yes, I am still traumatised...

    The moral of my story is that no child this young wants to be excluded.

    SassyMummy, I am 100% on your side and would have the same problems if this happened to my kids, but please consider the possibility that your DD may feel worse for being made to feel different. I may be able to joke now about what happened to me, but at the time it was awful. I'm sure there's a way the school could handle it - should've handled it - that is sensitive to your daughter and respectful of your wishes. Hope it all gets sorted

    [I should also say that my story took place nearly 30 years ago and these days a lot more kids are unbaptised or come from atheist or agnostic households, so I doubt your daughter would be on her own in this situation or that you'd be the only parent with objections. Something else I wanted to add was that my best friend at that age was told by her Catholic priest that if you said 'sh!t' more than 200 times, you'd go straight to Hell - and she truly believed it. She even burst into tears once when I said it a couple of times in a row (little potty mouth I was for a while!). Honestly, talk about irresponsible teaching...]
    I agree that exclusion/being the odd one out is not a good feeling for children, but I feel really strongly that that is not a good enough reason for an impressionable child to be put in to a room where they will be force fed religion, in a manner that is not sanctioned or supported by the childs parents. The current system in most schools is inadequate and IMO should be changed to an opt-IN system, for all state schools, as Riversong mentioned in an earlier post.

    It distresses me to think that a child could come home from school being told that her non-believing parents are bound for hell upon their death. Children are just too young and ill equipped to discern what they are being told

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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Condescending much?

    Not really interested in debating you if that's how you choose to argue.
    Didn't mean to be condescending, but I just can't fathom what a 7year old is learning. I would like to know in all honesty though so I could at least grasp what a child is getting from reading the bible, without debate because I'm not really wanting to debate either. I feel strongly about religion and children so I don't know think I would change my mind about my children learning it. But I would still like to know what other parents feel children are learning (and what they actually do in these re classes)

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    At their age they are like little sponges. My DS hasn't even attended religion classes in the sense of Christianity and he thinks there is a 'man who made the world' just from talks from the carers at OSHC. In my opinion, religion in State schools has no place. Religious education is up to the parents and many athiests choose State schooling to avoid the religious indoctrination.

    I want my DS to make up his own mind on his faith (or lack thereof). I do not want people influencing him and it drives me bl00dy insane that people with their own agendas try to get into his head. How would people feel if we started puttin Marxism in their kids heads, or Islam, or racism? It's not the school's business as to which religion children follow. This needs to stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermilk View Post
    Didn't mean to be condescending, but I just can't fathom what a 7year old is learning. I would like to know in all honesty though so I could at least grasp what a child is getting from reading the bible, without debate because I'm not really wanting to debate either. I feel strongly about religion and children so I don't know think I would change my mind about my children learning it. But I would still like to know what other parents feel children are learning (and what they actually do in these re classes)
    you cannot fathom what a 7 year old can learn??? Kids learn so much when they are in Year 1!!!! How can you not fathom them learning...DS covered everything from recycling, to European history, a whole range of religions, algebra...7 year olds are amazing!

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    Default I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    At their age they are like little sponges. My DS hasn't even attended religion classes in the sense of Christianity and he thinks there is a 'man who made the world' just from talks from the carers at OSHC. In my opinion, religion in State schools has no place. Religious education is up to the parents and many athiests choose State schooling to avoid the religious indoctrination.

    I want my DS to make up his own mind on his faith (or lack thereof). I do not want people influencing him and it drives me bl00dy insane that people with their own agendas try to get into his head. How would people feel if we started puttin Marxism in their kids heads, or Islam, or racism? It's not the school's business as to which religion children follow. This needs to stop.
    I think comparing religion to racism is a bit of a leap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermilk View Post
    Didn't mean to be condescending, but I just can't fathom what a 7year old is learning. I would like to know in all honesty though so I could at least grasp what a child is getting from reading the bible, without debate because I'm not really wanting to debate either. I feel strongly about religion and children so I don't know think I would change my mind about my children learning it. But I would still like to know what other parents feel children are learning (and what they actually do in these re classes)
    Ok well if we can keep it nice.

    Firstly, I don't agree with RE at state schools, at all.

    In relation to my specific experience, I can't specifically recall what I learned as a 7 year old (that was 35 years ago) but I did RE at a catholic convent school until I was 11 or 12 so I may be referring to what I learned over that whole period (not just at age 7).

    From memory the first few years were predominantly stories from the old testament. As someone who in the future studied ancient history, I loved the old testament. They were just great stories about a time and places I couldn't imagine.

    As we got older we studied the new testament. We were taught it very much chronologically (ie along the lifeline of "Jesus") and obviously around special times like Easter or Christmas we focused on those specific stories.

    We also had bibles and we had to learn passages from them (this was more in years 5 to 7). We were examined on certain passages and we had to explain what we thought they meant to us. Around times of communion and confirmation RE focused on what those rights of passage meant to a Catholic and why they were important.

    I actually chose not to be confirmed. I questioned my faith a lot in year 7 as things happened which made me wonder about it. We were told it was a choice, and I made the choice not to be confirmed. It was extremely difficult as I was the only one in my year not to be confirmed. I felt ostracised. But my parents were behind me 100% so I stuck to my guns.

    Other things I learned over the years were more generic messages about caring for the poor (we supported a lot of charities at our school), looking after the elderly in our community (we visited a lot of elderly housing), and also refugees (although I don't think we called them that then - I do remember one teacher discussing how many people thought Jesus was a foreigner and didn't like him for that reason, and how that's not a good reason to fear or not trust a person). Each time we discussed those messages we would be taken back to passages in the bible which supported these messages.

    Lots of those lessons can be learned at home from parents, but if someone chooses to send their child to a religious school I gather they'd learn similar things there.

    I realised after I left primary school that there were lots of passages in the bible we didn't get taught and which I didn't like (the curse of Ham is just one that springs to mind). But I don't see how I was somehow failed in my education because I questioned it later - I just chose to keep reading.

    I became a lawyer - I question everything anyone tells me. It's a really annoying part of my personality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curby View Post
    I think comparing religion to racism is a bit of a leap.
    Why?

    Some athiest parents, or parents of other religions, find attempts at recruiting our kids just as offensive.

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    Last edited by Cinderella82; 10-08-2013 at 22:34.

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    Default I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermilk View Post
    Didn't mean to be condescending, but I just can't fathom what a 7year old is learning. I would like to know in all honesty though so I could at least grasp what a child is getting from reading the bible, without debate because I'm not really wanting to debate either. I feel strongly about religion and children so I don't know think I would change my mind about my children learning it. But I would still like to know what other parents feel children are learning (and what they actually do in these re classes)
    My nieces go to a private Anglican school - not because it's Anglican because it's private, it's also the school we all went to, in
    Primary school they pretty much get told the cool bible stories, ( Noah, Jonah and the Whale, Joseph and his dream coat and the popular Jesus stories and parables) and to give thanks for your food and pray to thank G-d for your family and friends and happy life - taught by their scripture teachers once a week who are qualified teachers - we never had to learn passages or do any in depth bible study at all - the only thing they "made " us learn we're the ten commandments and the lords prayer - high school was more involved but really not that big of a deal either

    it sounds a lot worse what they seem to be teaching at these religion classes in public schools


 

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