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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post

    I don't think children are stupid but they are hard wired as part of evolution to believe what they have been told, especially by figures of authority.

    In reference to indoctrination, my children are only 2 and 5 at the moment and neither of them have a concept of deities or religion. As I stated before, when they start to ask questions I will explain difference beliefs as objectively as I can. I'm not going to tell them what we believe. If DD or DS asks me if there is a god I will turn the question around and ask them "well what do you think?". This is very different to raising a child in religion ABC and but saying that they are free to chose a religion or not of their own. Whilst they might be free they have been bought up to believe all the tenets and belief systems of religion ABC to explain the world around them. This is a very difficult thing to abandon.

    For the record if my children decide when they are an adult to follow a religion then I would support them because I know they have made the choice as an adult and it has not been 'bred' into them.

    There is an old Jesuit saying "give me a boy until he is 7 and I will give you the man".
    See I don't ever actually remember thinking religion was real or a fact. The giveaway for me was that in the bible they are referred to as stories. Maybe I was very lucky having intelligent parents and we discussed much of what we learned. I'm not sure. I just don't recall ever thinking of RE the same way I thought about English or maths. To me it just seemed like historical stories, but not really a truth.

    Maybe that was just the 70s.

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    Default I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    I just want to take a minute and separate out the RE teachings from under the banner of 'Christianity'. The majority of RE is Catholicism. I wouldn't have a drama if some lovely Protestants wanted to teach my boy about God and the Bible, but under no circumstances do I want him indoctrinated into the Catholic faith. So can we be clear about that please? Catholicism and Protestancy are not the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    See I don't ever actually remember thinking religion was real or a fact. The giveaway for me was that in the bible they are referred to as stories. Maybe I was very lucky having intelligent parents and we discussed much of what we learned. I'm not sure. I just don't recall ever thinking of RE the same way I thought about English or maths. To me it just seemed like historical stories, but not really a truth.

    Maybe that was just the 70s.
    I don't remember thinking it was real either, in fact I was really a bit confused by the whole thing as to me it was clearly not factual so I didn't understand how it fitted into the scheme of things. I started high school at an Anglican school and we had to go to chapel regularly. We all giggled a bit at the (not sure what the words are) practices we had to undertake in chapel like kneeling, praying, bowing to the altar when entering and leaving etc. I had an "ah hah" moment when during a chapel service where some parents were there I was curious as to why one of the mothers was taking everything so seriously and then it dawned on me, she believed it all.

    Obviously there is a very broad range of how religion is taught or presented to children from nice, fluffy stories to "believe this and carry out these practices otherwise you are going to burn in the pits of hell for eternity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marepoppin View Post
    I just want to take a minute and separate out the RE teachings from under the banner of 'Christianity'. The majority of RE is Catholicism. I wouldn't have a drama if some lovely Protestants wanted to teach my boy about God and the Bible, but under no circumstances do I want him indoctrinated into the Catholic faith. So can we be clear about that please? Catholicism and Protestancy are not the same.
    I think it depends on the school.

    I know at ours - they have a group for Catholics and then a 'general religion' ..which is basic christianity.

    The volunteers at our school use material from "Godspace"

    Here is a link if anyone is interested.
    http://www.godspace.org.au/home.html

    [and yeh -- a bit of colouring of jesus ] there are 'sample lessons' viewable on here - and it is completely obvious that they are trying to 'recruit'

    ..my three children are 'opted out' of RI
    ..but have managed to come home with numerous activity sheets - handed to them by volunteers who have, like the one at Sassy's school..overstepped their mark when my kids came back into the classroom. (so OBVIOUS that they weren't meant to be involved)
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 22-02-2013 at 19:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marepoppin View Post
    I just want to take a minute and separate out the RE teachings from under the banner of 'Christianity'. The majority of RE is Catholicism. I wouldn't have a drama if some lovely Protestants wanted to teach my boy about God and the Bible, but under no circumstances do I want him indoctrinated into the Catholic faith. So can we be clear about that please? Catholicism and Protestancy are not the same.
    I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Why do you think the majority of RE is Catholicism? Why are Protestants lovely and Catholics indoctrinating?

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    Default I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    Yep. I'd be peeved too.

    I'm agnostic. I'd be open to my children to be taught about the different religions by a teacher who did not show any bias or leanings towards a certain religion. I would NOT be comfortable for my child to sit in a class to be taught one particular religion as fact. I don't really think that scenario has a place in any public school.

    I think if you want your child to learn a particular religion, then send them to a school that teaches it as part of the curriculum.

    Kids can learn about different religions, what the basics are. Just as they might learn about different cultures. They should be taught tolerance for each religion/culture....it shouldn't go any further than that.

    That's what RE should be in public schools.

    That's my 5 cents anyway.


    ETA - I changed from atheist to agnostic. Im either on any given day
    Last edited by GirlyWirly; 22-02-2013 at 19:16.

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    Wow, this thread is getting really heated! In the interests of keeping the sisterhood intact, maybe we all ought to step away from the computer for a while in order to get some perspective...

    The fact is that even if our young children have been exposed to a message we don't like (be it certain religious teachings or even rubbish in the playground that's come from other kids - and we've all experienced that...), WE CAN SET THEM STRAIGHT AT HOME. They're not being strapped down 'Clockwork orange'/Ludovico-style and brainwashed - it's just another bit of information they've been exposed to that they need our help, as their parents, to process and understand. The important thing is that we talk with them about these subjects in an open way and allow them to ask questions. And SassyMummy has already said she does this with her DD and she's dealing with the matter with the school, so maybe we've just got to trust that she's got things in hand and can correct any false information her daughter has heard. Yes, it sucks that the school failed to respect her wishes, but in starting this thread she's made us all aware that this kind of thing can happen and reminded us why we need to be involved in our children's education.

    It's also reminded me why my mother says "religion is not an appropriate dinner party conversation"...

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    some lovely Protestants? What a very strange post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marepoppin View Post
    I just want to take a minute and separate out the RE teachings from under the banner of 'Christianity'. The majority of RE is Catholicism. I wouldn't have a drama if some lovely Protestants wanted to teach my boy about God and the Bible, but under no circumstances do I want him indoctrinated into the Catholic faith. So can we be clear about that please? Catholicism and Protestancy are not the same.

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    Default I am so angry... (Religion in schools)

    Clarification: sorry, I'm not saying that Protestants are lovely and that Catholics aren't, I'm saying that if some nice, lovely people who were Protestant taught my son RE, I'd be okay with it because I disbelieve too many things about Catholicism to feel comfortable with that being taught to my son. I feel uncomfortable with aspects of Protestant beliefs too, eg being saved and not being saved, the Rapture, to an extent, but I'd choose that branch of Christianity to be foistered onto my kid, if it happened at school and if my wishes were ignored, like the OPs.

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    Oh right, thanks for the clarification. I'd say I am agnostic, I think churches are all pretty hhmmmmm. My son goes to Re, becuase I lost the form and then couldn't be bothered finding it. He came home telling me tht "Jesus is his best friend" I can tell him till the cows come home about the different religions and how I don't believe etc, but deep down I believe he still thinks Jesus is his best friend....what have I done!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marepoppin View Post
    Clarification: sorry, I'm not saying that Protestants are lovely and that Catholics aren't, I'm saying that if some nice, lovely people who were Protestant taught my son RE, I'd be okay with it because I disbelieve too many things about Catholicism to feel comfortable with that being taught to my son. I feel uncomfortable with aspects of Protestant beliefs too, eg being saved and not being saved, the Rapture, to an extent, but I'd choose that branch of Christianity to be foistered onto my kid, if it happened at school and if my wishes were ignored, like the OPs.


 

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