+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 60
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts

    Default Flu Vaccine While Pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by schmetterling18 View Post
    I know one personally. The Dr knew that the cases he spoke of were directly related the the vaccine (I remember there being a few news reports on this at the time as well). The husband of my friend became acquainted with others at the hosptial who also experienced reactions and required rehab - there was no question about the cause being the vaccine (by their families or by medical professionals), and is still in touch with them. My friend's reaction was almost instant.. she was on life support by nightfall the day she was vaccinated.
    Poor thing, hope she is doing better now.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,125
    Thanks
    1,810
    Thanked
    1,694
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    "Anecdotal evidence "... Not good saying that ... When there isn't any .. Absolutely fine to go with what feels best for you ..
    Sorry I don't really understand what you mean.

    I personally believe 'anecdotal evidence' is very important and underrated in decision making. I definitely don't base all my decisions on anecdotes but don't feel I can completely ignore it either. When there is a link between a vaccine and a reaction (just as an example), it starts off as an anecdote, one person saying they had a reaction, then another, and another, until studies are done.

    I know the science says it's safe but like PP said, lots of things were considered safe which are now known not to be. They would've all started off as 'anecdotes'.

    Anyway, each to their own, just wasn't right for me.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts

    Default Flu Vaccine While Pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    Sorry I don't really understand what you mean.

    I personally believe 'anecdotal evidence' is very important and underrated in decision making. I definitely don't base all my decisions on anecdotes but don't feel I can completely ignore it either. When there is a link between a vaccine and a reaction (just as an example), it starts off as an anecdote, one person saying they had a reaction, then another, and another, until studies are done.

    I know the science says it's safe but like PP said, lots of things were considered safe which are now known not to be. They would've all started off as 'anecdotes'.

    Anyway, each to their own, just wasn't right for me.
    I think what she means is that "anecdotal evidence" isn't real evidence. Too often people spread these anecdotes, which more often than not, turn out to be completely unrelated. Look at the "MMR causes autism" example- people whose children started showing signs of autism around the time of receiving MMR made a correlation, assumed a causation which was then "confirmed" via a fraudulent study and there you have one of the most damaging cases of "anecdotes" the world has ever seen in relation to vaccines. Just n example of why we shouldn't use "anecdotal evidence" to make decisions.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Atropos For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (19-02-2013)

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    3,037
    Thanks
    1,498
    Thanked
    730
    Reviews
    2
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I think what she means is that "anecdotal evidence" isn't real evidence. Too often people spread these anecdotes, which more often than not, turn out to be completely unrelated. Look at the "MMR causes autism" example- people whose children started showing signs of autism around the time of receiving MMR made a correlation, assumed a causation which was then "confirmed" via a fraudulent study and there you have one of the most damaging cases of "anecdotes" the world has ever seen in relation to vaccines. Just n example of why we shouldn't use "anecdotal evidence" to make decisions.
    Thats what I meant


    Sorry I have severe preggy brain ( flooded my house today .. Left bathroom tap on!!) ..
    My wording is all over the place

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Maybelline For This Useful Post:

    Annabella  (19-02-2013),beebs  (19-02-2013)

  7. #45
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,125
    Thanks
    1,810
    Thanked
    1,694
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Yes I agree anecdotal evidence is not 'real' evidence and is often coincidental, but I would never completely discount it, and in fact believe its irresponsible to do so. As a PP used thalidomide as an example- at first the babies being born without limbs would've been purely anecdotal. I guess also, for me, people say there is no scientific evidence that some natural therapies work, yet I and many of my friends will testify that they do iykwim.

    There have actually been compensation payouts for autism in relation to vaccinations (o/seas) despite no clear scientific evidence that the vaccination caused it, but I guess the anecdotal evidence was so strong that there was no scientific evidence that it 'didn't either. There was also a pay out last year in Italy where it was deemed that the vax did cause it.

    My kids still get MMR, as I weigh up the scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence, the risks to my child and the community of not vaxing vs vaxing, but I feel really uneasy about it because I do believe there probably is a link even if not directly causative.

    Anyway, sorry just wanted clarify, but agree it must all be taken into account and decisions not made simply on 'my sister's friend's husband's cousin....'

  8. #46
    lambjam's Avatar
    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    7,177
    Thanks
    2,062
    Thanked
    4,956
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts

    Default Flu Vaccine While Pregnant

    In the absence of evidence, anecdotes are often all we have to go on. But once scientific evidence is provided, anecdotes are just unfounded stories.

    Re the compensation claim in Italy, consider that the very same court system also found six scientists guilty of manslaughter last year for failing to predict an earthquake
    Last edited by lambjam; 19-02-2013 at 08:45.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lambjam For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (19-02-2013),Maybelline  (19-02-2013)

  10. #47
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    10,012
    Thanks
    14,124
    Thanked
    7,612
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Awards:
    100 Posts in a week
    Not sure how I feel about these pay out cases without scientific evidence. One of the vaccines has listed in its may cause death part that someone was killed in a car accident a few weeks after receiving the vaccine. What the heck is that about!?!??

  11. #48
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,125
    Thanks
    1,810
    Thanked
    1,694
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Dunno but it's enough to make me feel a bit uncomfortable about it, I've just heard too many stories of kids who were completely normal before a vaccine and gradually deteriorated afterwards. I don't think it's as simple as ' X vaccine causes autism' but I do think they may be somehow linked even if its just that some individuals are predisposed somehow and the vaccine aggravates it (all based on anecdotal evidence of course).

  12. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,806
    Thanks
    7,267
    Thanked
    9,720
    Reviews
    5
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts

    Default Flu Vaccine While Pregnant

    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    Yes I agree anecdotal evidence is not 'real' evidence and is often coincidental, but I would never completely discount it, and in fact believe its irresponsible to do so. As a PP used thalidomide as an example- at first the babies being born without limbs would've been purely anecdotal. I guess also, for me, people say there is no scientific evidence that some natural therapies work, yet I and many of my friends will testify that they do iykwim.

    There have actually been compensation payouts for autism in relation to vaccinations (o/seas) despite no clear scientific evidence that the vaccination caused it, but I guess the anecdotal evidence was so strong that there was no scientific evidence that it 'didn't either. There was also a pay out last year in Italy where it was deemed that the vax did cause it.

    My kids still get MMR, as I weigh up the scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence, the risks to my child and the community of not vaxing vs vaxing, but I feel really uneasy about it because I do believe there probably is a link even if not directly causative.

    Anyway, sorry just wanted clarify, but agree it must all be taken into account and decisions not made simply on 'my sister's friend's husband's cousin....'
    The payout thing... It's a court of law, not science, and an erratic court as that. As Lambjam pointed out, they convicted scientists who didn't predict an earthquake!!

    To date, there is absolutely zero evidence that vaccines cause autism. Zero. There have been loads of studies done in regard to vaccines and autism, many trying to replicate the results fabricated by Wakefield, and many others and there still is not one shred of evidence that vaccines cause autism. His fraudulent study came out 15 years ago, and it has been studied ad nauseum since.

    Regarding thalidomide, errors of that gravity are rarely made these days, in part due to the thalidomide crisis. Because of that case, drug standards are much more rigorous than they used to be and there is much greater onus on drug companies to prove not only the efficacy of their treatments but their safety. Thalidomide was sold for 5-6 years while babies were being born with deformities and dying as infants. These days as soon as a reaction is noticed, action is taken, iykwim.

    Regarding natural therapies, there are often other explanations, but people pin results onto them. I remember my DSD being treated with a homeopathic remedy for a high fever (as her fathers new partner, I had no say in the matter) I was horrified that at 4 years old she was made to suffer a fever of over 39 degrees for several hours and was not given Panadol. When her fever broke 7 hours later, her BM credited the homeopathic remedy, whereas I thought it was pretty obvious that the fever broke on its own. She went on to recommend this "remedy" saying it had brought down her daughters fever- this became her "anecdotal evidence", kwim?
    I actually think there are many cases where taking into account such anecdotal evidence is irresponsible- there are just too many compounding factors and it is just I possible to verify without proper scientific observation. I would much rather put my faith in facts rather than other people's stories.

    Sorry to go so off topic OP!

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Atropos For This Useful Post:

    beebs  (19-02-2013),lambjam  (19-02-2013)

  14. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    on a sandy beach!
    Posts
    6,339
    Thanks
    336
    Thanked
    2,199
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts

    Default Flu Vaccine While Pregnant

    My doctor said its fine but my OB said get it done after bubs is born. So that's what I'm doing

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to monnie24 For This Useful Post:

    littlelove  (19-02-2013)


 

Similar Threads

  1. Terrified of the MMR vaccine.
    By happy wanderer in forum Pro-Vaccination
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-02-2013, 10:04
  2. The Vaccine Debate
    By Sarelou in forum Immunisation & Vaccines
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 31-08-2012, 19:39
  3. Fat vaccine, thoughts?
    By headoverfeet in forum Immunisation & Vaccines
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 16-07-2012, 11:16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Einsteinz Music
Make music at Einsteinz Music in age-appropriate class in Sydney's Inner West, Eastern Suburbs or North Shore. For ages 6 mths - 4 yrs. All music is live! Christmas Gift certificates available for full term or casual classes. Call 0431 338 143
sales & new stuffsee all
Bub Hub Sales Listing
HAVING A SALE? Let parents know about it with a Bub Hub Sales listing. Listings are featured on our well trafficked Sales Page + selected randomly to appear on EVERY page
featured supporter
TPS Health Physiotherapy and Pilates
TPS Health Physiotherapy and Pilates has three clinics located at Morningside, Redlands and Lutwyche. We offer pre and post natal services as well as physiotherapy and Pilates. All clinics offer child minding services so bubs are always welcome!
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!