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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    It is quite amusing that less than an hour ago, you said this:
    "I don't think I've ever heard anybody say tax rich people more unless it's with regard to the taxes on major mining companies"

    That is quite a turnaround.
    I'm not sure what you are talking about - I hadn't heard this before. Until you showed me the article which doesn't exactly seem drastic to me. Not a turnaround at all.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilahh View Post
    I got it from the OP, where Abbott said $70 billion in cuts would need to be made and Senator Wong made it sound as if Liberal were cutting because they hate families, when in truth, they are making the cuts because Labor has just spent, spent, spent.

    I have been right-wing since I can remember knowing about politics, but I've become less conservative and more libertarian in my old age. At the end of the day, left-wing values equality more than anything else and right-wing values freedom/individual liberty. When it comes down to it, the full strength of every individual is the best thing for society. I truly do not believe that any left-wing party unleashes the full potential of every individual; I believe they cripple everyone at low end and high ends of the economy to ensure "equality" above all else, and everyone suffers as a result. An Australia that gives every Australian the ability to reach their full potential is absolutely the best thing, IMO, for society, and that's what the Liberal party stands for.

    I can't afford a haircut either at the moment. Has nothing to do with the Government.
    Far enough, I haven't actually read the article which I should have done.

    I have been left wing ever since I learnt about politics, it was my major at Uni. To me the priorities of left wing politics are primarily social justice and equality. Of course we all want individual liberty but I think this is just interpreted differently. I don't have much faith in the idea of just increasing income tax from those at the top of the income scale, I would prefer to see greater value placed on making the playing field more level for all but that doesn't mean bringing those at the top down to the bottom. There will always be the more talented, blessed, brainier, industrious individuals among us and they should be recognised and rewarded accordingly.

    I am a firm believer that there should be greater transparency in government spending and agreed measures of economic and social prosperity. How are we supposed to make a call between parties if we can't get a big picture? All we get is "she said/he said" rather than objective indicators of success.

    I think one thing the ALP is putting in place - the independent board to cost policies is a FANTASTIC idea. Admittedly, we don't know how independent they are the results should be available for public scrutiny but in principle I don't think the idea can be faulted.

    On a final note, one person's government spending is another person's investment in the public. The subtle yet strong influence of words cannot be understated.

    At the end of the day I guess I can't get my head around why any woman or reasonable man would want to vote for a party with someone leading it that is so blatantly backward in their views on women and the environment.


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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I do find it frustrating on here that people constantly talk about what the government should "give" them (free childcare, free gym memberships, free swimming lessons!) with little regard to where the government is supposed to conjure this money.

    The prevailing response is "tax rich people some more, if they can't afford it they're not budgeting right".

    The reality is that public spending without the revenue to back it up equals debt. Debt! What many people here are asking for is the equivalent of going on a shopping spree with a credit card you have no way of paying off.

    I'm not a fan of Liberal, but neither am I a fan of any government that gets into power by appeasing people by giving them more than it can afford to. Those school supplies reimbursements everyone thinks are their god given right? They're not! Not if the country can't afford them.
    Your spot on!

    The government shouldn't be responsible for paying lower income earners a school bonus. Pay for your own child's education! And who is paying for it is the higher income earner paying a ridiculas amount of tax.
    Last edited by Blessedwith3boys; 26-02-2013 at 13:48.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Here is one example of wanting to tax 'rich' people.
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...228-2bz5x.html

    I don't know much about Cuba's welfare system, but if you think it would be a good place to live, then off you go. We could do a lot better with a lot of things. But the economy needs to be positioned appropriately to be able to fund such programs. Increasing spending whilst in deficit with a substantial debts is not the smartest thing.

    It is unfortunate for those that may lose their jobs. But the reality is, these jobs are a drain on the economy. The Rudd/Gillard has added more than 20,000 people to the federal bureaucracy. This costs a hell of a lot of money. And I, for one, have not seen our society as being better for it.

    Not sure why you are stressed about Abbott becoming PM. It would be quite a feat to be worse than the current government.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    How would you feel if the government took half of your income?
    If she was in the appropriate tax bracket? Pretty darn well-off, I'd say!

    To set my record straight, I'm all for high taxes. I'm all for wealth redistribution for all essential services. I believe that paying tax is a good thing, and if you find yourself in a high tax bracket you should count your blessings, because it's not only the result of hard work but also the result of advantage and a good dose of luck.

    My concern is when people view income tax as the only way out of financial difficulty. No, in such circumstances we all need to tighten our belts and stop expecting money to fall from the sky.

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    If she was in the appropriate tax bracket? Pretty darn well-off, I'd say!

    To set my record straight, I'm all for high taxes. I'm all for wealth redistribution for all essential services. I believe that paying tax is a good thing, and if you find yourself in a high tax bracket you should count your blessings, because it's not only the result of hard work but also the result of advantage and a good dose of luck.

    My concern is when people view income tax as the only way out of financial difficulty. No, in such circumstances we all need to tighten our belts and stop expecting money to fall from the sky.

    Yes I are but high income can come purely from working your @rse off and grafting from the bottom, not every one in high tax bracket it lucky or has advantaged life, some and many are pure bloody grafters. So yes I'm all for tax but I don't think that ever one who pays high tax is just lucky

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere View Post
    Yes I are but high income can come purely from working your @rse off and grafting from the bottom, not every one in high tax bracket it lucky or has advantaged life, some and many are pure bloody grafters. So yes I'm all for tax but I don't think that ever one who pays high tax is just lucky
    Not just lucky, no... But not just hard work either. May I refer you to one of my favourite quotations?

    "If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire." George Monbiot

    You may have worked hard, as have we. I can't speak for you but it was luck I was born in this country, luck I was born with all my limbs, luck I wasn't born into a family battling addiction, and luck I was born into a family that valued education.

    It's luck we were born into a situation where hard work *could* result in success.

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  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Not just lucky, no... But not just hard work either. May I refer you to one of my favourite quotations?

    "If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire." George Monbiot

    You may have worked hard, as have we. I can't speak for you but it was luck I was born in this country, luck I was born with all my limbs, luck I wasn't born into a family battling addiction, and luck I was born into a family that valued education.

    It's luck we were born into a situation where hard work *could* result in success.
    Yes but we are talking about Australia or Africa. We are not talking about taxing Australian workforce for Africa we are talking about Australia. I am not against tax as I said not at all but I am against the notion that its about luck.

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    I agree that we are lucky to be born or live in this country but that is the same for working and none working people, born with out disability again lucky but between two able bods working hard living Australia the difference can be pure hard work

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nowhere View Post
    I agree that we are lucky to be born or live in this country but that is the same for working and none working people, born with out disability again lucky but between two able bods working hard living Australia the difference can be pure hard work
    The quotation is meant to make you think in general terms, not just geographic ones

    Intelligence? Motivation to work? Physical prowess? Lack of depression? That sense of humour that gets you over the line during an interview? A winning smile? (They say that something as simple as straight teeth can help at interview! Pure luck to be born with them or into a family that could afford braces).The support of a loving family? Even just being born at the right time, eg during a mining boom.

    The fact is that many people work incredibly hard, and never achieve financial success. So it *must* be a combination of things.

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