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  1. #71
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokeybear View Post
    Be good if that was the last word spoken about it
    Don't worry, I have no intention of dignifying it with a response.

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    I wonder if forums with men in them ..( Like a car one or something ) are as *****y and rude .. I think judgement or opinions end up all over the place when it comes to women discussing things ... A lot of threads end in chaos here .. Even the most simple questions get picked apart and attacked .. ( this can be rather entertaining though) ..

  3. #73
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I agree with Vic that said judgment is to form an opinion. being judgemental is criticising someone or something based on your own values.
    I scarpered back to Oxford, to see what they have to say about "judgemental" as opposed to "judgement"...

    "of or concerning the use of judgement"

    No problem there. But as a subheading:

    "having or displaying an overly critical point of view"

    So the negative connotation comes from the perception that someone is being overly critical. Although given that's in the eye of the beholder I'm not sure how useful it really is.

    I'm really interested in this; how a positive word can end up implying such negative things. That using or imparting "judgement" is a good thing, but being "judgemental" is not.

    I know I've strayed far from the OP, as you were

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermilk View Post
    Her opinion and expressing her feelings towards Chrissie in my opinion is a quite acceptable emotion, I think this because we don't accept smoking as a society. We don't allow smoking in most public places, we don't allow advertising of cigarettes, we have plain packaging and a message about it's effects, smoking also affects everyone who is in contact with it which I think is the main issue for alot of people and why we don't accept it in public, in cars with children etc. This is a very normal reaction to have when you see a woman smoking.
    Is it judgmental? Absolutely. Does it make someone a bad person, arrogant, claim a throne of perfection, stirring trouble because they feel this way, ofcourse not.
    I agree to a certain point, we all have opinions on things like this, and being mothers all feel pretty strongly about issues involving child welfare etc. I haven't seen the thread being discussed but I guess I think there is a way of expressing your opinions that are not judgmental. I am not a smoker, and I hate smoking, but smokers seem to be fair game for criticism. Someone who is morbidly obese is also putting their child at risk and people who formula feed, but i think we would all tread a lot more carefully when addressing these issues to try not offend. We all try and word things nicely so as not to offed someone reading who may have ff, or who may be obese, Why doesn't the same apply to everyone else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttermilk View Post
    In this example that Annabella gave:
    If someone went into an eating disorders support group and said this, for no other reason, I would say it's unnacceptable. But I can't imagine anyone saying something like this to be deliberately hurtful with the intention to cause uproar.
    If someone says this in a conversation, without meaning to be cruel, the best thing to do is talk to her personally and say "this hurts me, I have an eating disorder and someone thinking like this about me doesn't help with my recovery and I etc etc." And the person will think about what they said and most likely apologise and explain what they meant further and it wasn't meant in this way, but accept it did sound hurtful etc etc.
    On a forum you don't know your audience, and therefore, I BELIEVE, have a duty of care to assume that any one of the women reading might have an eating disorder, or difficulty giving up smoking, or whatever. So I try and word my opinion based on the assumption I might be speaking to someone who has experienced those things personally and would be hurt if I said it in a judgmental way.

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  7. #75
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    I wonder if forums with men in them ..( Like a car one or something ) are as *****y and rude ..
    One of the b!tch!est people I've ever encountered was a man on a FB group dedicated to apostrophe/grammar/spelling etc.

    It put paid to anything I'd ever thought about women, and also my assumption that people sometimes get worked up on here because they speak about matters so close to their heart, ie their parenting, their children.

    Nope, turns out a disagreement over apostrophes denoting omission is cause for abuse in some circles!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    I wonder if forums with men in them ..( Like a car one or something ) are as *****y and rude .. I think judgement or opinions end up all over the place when it comes to women discussing things ... A lot of threads end in chaos here .. Even the most simple questions get picked apart and attacked .. ( this can be rather entertaining though) ..
    In my experience they're worse.

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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    One of the b!tch!est people I've ever encountered was a man on a FB group dedicated to apostrophe/grammar/spelling etc.

    It put paid to anything I'd ever thought about women, and also my assumption that people sometimes get worked up on here because they speak about matters so close to their heart, ie their parenting, their children.

    Nope, turns out a disagreement over apostrophes denoting omission is cause for abuse in some circles!
    Crikey! *snickers*

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Buttermilk - It was obviously me you think questioned her 2nd thread as being trouble making. I didn't understand why she didn't contribute to the first thread given she started it. She clarified she had read along to a point, got caught up and by the time she returned it had been closed. I said I understood that and had that happen to me as well so I got it.

    I've been speaking in a general sense more than the Op's situation. I think maybe people responded a bit harshly to her as they felt she had been harsh and it snow balled a bit.

    I do stand behind my comments in a general sense though *not* relating to the OP. Certain people expect to say whatever they wish, offend whole groups of people and no one is allowed to even respond bc that's their opinion and any rebuttal supposedly means bullying.
    To be honest I couldn't remember who said what, just those general words and what she mentioned in her OP, it was coincidence you said trouble making, so I wasn't intentionally picking you up on it.
    But yeah I thought I would give my 2cents worth on her original post and what I thought she meant including what I perceived from her last thread. I did feel it was abit harsh and if she felt picked on it wasn't her fault or her intention to cause trouble and those feelings should be recognised not dismissed (which is still happening in the thread, not by you)

    As for judging/judgement/opinions. I think we all judge and an opinion can or doesn't have to be part of that judgement. Judgement isn't necessarily a good or bad thing either, you can judge a person, situation, event and form an opinion based on that judgement. You can judge in favour or against. Being judgmental is being excessively critical by definition, but is that a bad thing? This is how we function as society and decide what is or isn't acceptable.
    If we don't judge and criticise anyone, ever, we would never know or bother to change a dangerous behaviour, it will almost become acceptable. No one will question themselves or think they are doing something wrong, as a society, we push it by being openly critical of things and putting it out there.
    I would not think a smoking pregnant lady would ever receive so much of it by so many women, but Chrissie is out there and put herself there. I would never go up to a stranger and judge her or give her my opinion. But this is a topic she herself has put out there by going on tv and talking about it.
    It's a can of worms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    I wonder if forums with men in them ..( Like a car one or something ) are as *****y and rude .. I think judgement or opinions end up all over the place when it comes to women discussing things ... A lot of threads end in chaos here .. Even the most simple questions get picked apart and attacked .. ( this can be rather entertaining though) ..
    It's a shame you have that opinion solely of women discussing things on the internet! I've been a long term member of a few very male dominated forums, and the male posters can be downright aggressive, incredibly personalised bullying, far far nastier than anything I've seen on a parenting forum dominated by women. Women may have the oestrogen flowing, but testosterone and mixed opinions in front a screen is really somethin' else.

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    bubhub is extremely tame compared to a lot of forums, I think if this place is seen as bullying and critical then some haven't ventured very far online (can't say I blame them lol).

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