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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsugardumplin' View Post
    Okay, so what I don't get it how people believe it's acceptable to make rather personal remarks about your character - based on your opinion!

    We all have strong values and beliefs - and the purpose of a forum is to discuss these, and yes there will always be a differing point of view and opinion - and that's a good thing.

    What I struggle with is the name calling and assumptions about me as a person.....if you don't agree with me fine, then just say `I don't agree with you because..........' why make it personal?

    In the Chrissie Swan thread I had one member (whose been around for less than a year!!!) tell me all sorts of things about my character. And another pp who called me arrogant, high and mighty - but then suggests in this thread not to take it personally - because she doesn't really think I am those things - then why say it!!
    I think the irony is that you are attacking Chrissie Swan's character but get upset when someone attacks yours.

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  3. #52
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsugardumplin' View Post
    Okay, so what I don't get it how people believe it's acceptable to make rather personal remarks about your character - based on your opinion!

    We all have strong values and beliefs - and the purpose of a forum is to discuss these, and yes there will always be a differing point of view and opinion - and that's a good thing.

    What I struggle with is the name calling and assumptions about me as a person.....if you don't agree with me fine, then just say `I don't agree with you because..........' why make it personal?

    In the Chrissie Swan thread I had one member (whose been around for less than a year!!!) tell me all sorts of things about my character. And another pp who called me arrogant, high and mighty - but then suggests in this thread not to take it personally - because she doesn't really think I am those things - then why say it!!
    I don't think it should matter how long one has been a member, personally.

    I didn't read much of the second chrissy thread, and I can't say I find you particularly arrogant but I would hazard a guess that perhaps it was your opinion they found arrogant, not you as a person, if the poster asked you not to take it personally and stated they didn't think you yourself were arrogant etc

  4. #53
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    sweetsugardumplin' is offline be the change you want to see in da world
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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmoduckus View Post
    I think the irony is that you are attacking Chrissie Swan's character but get upset when someone attacks yours.
    I was talking about Chrissie Swan's behaviour - and the impact her behaviour has on her children. I said I was angry that she was placing her children at risk. I never said Chrissie was a terrible mother, a disgusting human being etc......I just happen to feel strongly about children being exposed to cigarette smoke - regardless of who is the parent is.

    Years ago a picture of Britney Spears was posted. In that picture her two sons were playing in the lounge room while Britney danced around. In the room was a table with cigarettes, lighter and full ashtray.......I was mad at Britney too!

    So are you saying that I cannot have an opinion about behaviour that puts children at risk, unless it's a popular one? Or run the risk being called all manner of things?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetsugardumplin' View Post
    I have people telling me how much they hate judgemental mothers, but then go on to judge me (and others in different threads)
    Judge you or question your opinion?

    Questioning people's opinions is discussion.

    Condemning someone for their opinions/actions would be judgement. It's personal, whereas questioning someone for their opinions isn't.

    However if someone continually shows behaviour or forms opinions that I think are derogatory or harmful to others, or are ignorant (cant back it up) then yes I will judge them. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt though.

    I choose which threads I comment on here fairly carefully and keep it polite most of the time I think.

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    I agree there is a difference between having and opinion and judging, absolutely there is.

    Most of the time being judgmental is inappropriate and rude, and will hurt peoples feelings. Stating your opinion rarely upsets anyone, and may infact give people another perspective which can be a good thing.

    In saying that, I didn't see the Chrissie Swan thead, and I am very judgmental when it comes to smoking, so there's a good chance if I had seen it, I would have said something judgmental, and people may have got upset at me for it. Difference is, I would have copped that. In general I think judgmental comments are uncalled for and so would expect some backlash. This particular topic however is something I am passionate about and happy to take the hit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'm dismissing people feeling picked on generally. I do somewhat agree with you, attacking people, even if they are saying pretty out there things isn't acceptable.

    I'm trying hard not to give examples of particular topics and threads so as not to break the rules of gossiping. But I have noticed in the last year, a clear pattern. Someone who is well known for saying pretty judgmental stuff will say something pretty nasty and full on, people do start out relatively calm and challenge the thought process not the person. The person gets agro, says they are getting picked on, and starts attacking. People then get sick of trying to reason and retaliate. Not right but somewhat understandable.

    What is being missed here, is just as someone is allowed to have a provocative opinion, others are allowed to have an opinion against it. Otherwise what I see is a few people going thread to thread causing trouble and derailing then demanding that no one is allowed to say anything or it means they are being bullied.
    I will use the example of the OP. I read the thread and the repsonses (and again some reponses in here) and I felt she was unduly criticised for her opinion and her character was questioned. She was also criticised for starting the thread like she wanted to cause trouble. Now I don't know if she has a history of starting contraversial topics, which is beside the point. Her opinion and expressing her feelings towards Chrissie in my opinion is a quite acceptable emotion, I think this because we don't accept smoking as a society. We don't allow smoking in most public places, we don't allow advertising of cigarettes, we have plain packaging and a message about it's effects, smoking also affects everyone who is in contact with it which I think is the main issue for alot of people and why we don't accept it in public, in cars with children etc. This is a very normal reaction to have when you see a woman smoking.
    Is it judgmental? Absolutely. Does it make someone a bad person, arrogant, claim a throne of perfection, stirring trouble because they feel this way, ofcourse not.
    I couldn't even watch The can of worms yesterday. I don't know why. Perhaps because I don't feel sorry for her? I think she is an intelligent person, has 3 children, has quit before, has a job in television that hosts contraversial topics, so she puts herself out there and it's not something I expected from her. Then when the pics emerged she went onto every tv show to 'explain' herself. Now this might make me unpopular, but this is how I feel about her in particular over this issue. I'll get over it, but its an emotion. And I'm not a bad person for judging the whole situation this way. I know we all have flaws, I'm not perfect, I don't think she is a bad person and I'm not judging her as a mother, but with this particular topic of smoking I felt this way. If she was a friend I might express the same one to her, more of concern and hope she tries to get some more help and not feel the need to hide it but work on it (if she feels awful and guilty about it which she said she did)

    In this example that Annabella gave:

    "A woman would be a MUCH (in capital letters) better mum if she didn't have an eating disorder"
    If someone went into an eating disorders support group and said this, for no other reason, I would say it's unnacceptable. But I can't imagine anyone saying something like this to be deliberately hurtful with the intention to cause uproar.
    If someone says this in a conversation, without meaning to be cruel, the best thing to do is talk to her personally and say "this hurts me, I have an eating disorder and someone thinking like this about me doesn't help with my recovery and I etc etc." And the person will think about what they said and most likely apologise and explain what they meant further and it wasn't meant in this way, but accept it did sound hurtful etc etc.
    However, if 10people come in and their response to that quote is "you arrogant so and so, how dare you, you aren't perfect, etc etc" then that person might feel picked on. And say well stuff you and react aggressively without the chance or desire to explain or have their view challenged constructively.

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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `jud

    I haven't read other replies, but no, having an opinion is not the same as judging.
    I often find that people who feel judged by another's opinion, its because they are not 100% confident in what ever it is that they are doing, so they get defensive.

  11. #58
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    I'm baffled by the number of people insisting that forming an opinion is different to (and somehow superior to) judgement. I know what you're trying to get at, but the fact is you're wrong. As I said earlier, Oxford defines "judgement" as "the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions".

    You need a new word to describe the behaviour you're talking about, judgement doesn't cut it

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post

    You need a new word to describe the behaviour you're talking about, judgement doesn't cut it
    How about condescending snob?

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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    The last couple of weeks one or two posters have been jumping into threads with a minority opinions( completely fine) but when they start to loose the argument they just throw a tanty and lower themselves to name calling. I'm all for debate, I've seen some great ones on here, respectfully argued on both sides, both having valid replies and thought provoking responses. I love to read those. But lately it's been not alot of calling a spade a spade more a beeping shovel. If we all thought the same if would be pretty boring here, so yeah debate the topic well and respectfully.Sorry went off on a tangent....anyways we all have opinions we all judge to an extent, human nature I guess.

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