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  1. #31
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    As to the comments that anyone that disagrees with the 'clique' is attacked, I don't buy that. what I see is a handful of posters that continually post offensive, judgmental stuff... people attempt to challenge their thinking... then they get angry and say people are bullying them.

    If someone said IRL what some people say about smoking mums, single mums etc etc I firmly believe people would say hang on, that's pretty nasty, have you considered a b or c in the equation? which is what happens here. It only descends into back biting when the member saying outrageous things then loses the plot and says they are being picked on.

    Own you words. If you are strong enough to say what you know is going to cause friction, expect there to be backlash. Otherwise it does come off trollish.

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  3. #32
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    I have seen what your talking about. But I also think that it is random. On one hand I have seen threads get so heated against one topic that the fire brigade had to be called to put it out (aka mods), on the other hand I have seen the same topic go the other way. I have also seen some members that appear to get targeted regardless of their viewpoints.

    I do think it depends on the general bubhub mood at the time. As well as the inability to sometimes interpret the tone of the statement of others.

    Sometimes it does get to a point where you have to agree to disagree.

    Could it also be because maybe the mods are giving us a little more leeway as requested? Correct me if I am wrong on this though. Just an idea.

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  4. #33
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    As to the comments that anyone that disagrees with the 'clique' is attacked, I don't buy that. what I see is a handful of posters that continually post offensive, judgmental stuff... people attempt to challenge their thinking... then they get angry and say people are bullying them.

    If someone said IRL what some people say about smoking mums, single mums etc etc I firmly believe people would say hang on, that's pretty nasty, have you considered a b or c in the equation? which is what happens here. It only descends into back biting when the member saying outrageous things then loses the plot and says they are being picked on.

    Own you words. If you are strong enough to say what you know is going to cause friction, expect there to be backlash. Otherwise it does come off trollish.
    Totally agree.
    The trouble with the anonymity that a forum offers is that people are way too comfortable spouting off opinions in insensitive ways- for example, if there was a support group for step parents having a meeting in a hall to discuss their unique set of circumstances, challenges and issues, would someone walk in and say "Hey, it's not YOUR kid, you don't have the right to do xyz, how can you feel that way towards your step child- that's just disgusting! Imagine if they found out!!" - I don't think anyone would. But yet, at times, the step parent section is overrun with non step parents saying exactly those things. The Internet doesn't have the buffers that real life does.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    See I don't always agree it's people trying to deliberately rile people up - I used to think that and there are a few posters who do put things out there and fess up to being intentionally provocative - but now I think some people just genuinely disagree with the majority view and aren't afraid to say it even though they get shot down.

    One poster commented recently that religion is one topic where certain views don't seem to be acceptable on BH. I think she was right.
    I was thinking of only a particular few when I wrote that. Although I also think that when we are talking about subjects that we are particularly passionate about, sometimes it is easy to come of sounding rude/judgmental or whatever, because the emotion takes over and often people reply in the heat of he moment. I know I have been guilty of that.

  7. #35
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    I have noticed a few people lately gettin up in arms about "cliques" and "groups" and how people who are friends with other people back them up and generally share their opinions to an extent.

    Well, yeah. Isn't that human nature? We stick up for and stick with those we consider our friends? I don't get why this is a negative thing! Irl I have friends who I will back up. We generally share similar opinions and have similar interests. It makes sense that it would be the same in forum world.

    I actually really love that people on here are not afraid to have different opinions. There are so many people on here who have opinions that that are so different to my own. I like reading their stories, and looking at it from their perspective. Often when someone posts something I know will be an unpopular opinion, I think, 'man that girl has guts, I respect that'.

    I have however noticed some bizarre and aggressive bickering going on here lately, which leaves me confused. I have noticed posts going off on these tangents which indicate to me that the fight is personal.

    When people have a different opinion than me and voice it on a public forum, I expect that they expect it to be challenged. As pp said, it out be boring if we all agreed. But when it gets all name calling attacking and bringing up the past, it seems a little bit school yard politics to me.

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  8. #36
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky27 View Post
    I've noticed that a lot lately in the last few weeks that people who have had a different opinion have had people say really mean things towards them, which isn't fair.
    I've noticed it a million times more than just lately.
    There are a lot of posters who are really rude beaches and use words like 'judgmental' and 'compassionless' at other hubbers because the other hubbers have a different opinion. It gets worse when people don't read which part of the forum they're in and get really rude at someone's opinion because of said someone's age or living circumstances yet theirs has nothing to do with the forum section.

    I love threads like the spelling and grammar thread where the differing opinions are lighthearted. Then you go to the ttc threads as a pregnant woman and add a different opinion on something and get screamed at (kind of understandably because we have what they're desperately trying for).

    I guess to sort of answer the OP - it's all about how the person reading your post is feeling at the time as to whether your different opinion is constructive or whether they're unhappy because you don't agree with them.

  9. #37
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    Dont go Cuddles!!!!!!!!!

    Judgment is the evaluation of evidence in the making of a decision.

    Judgemental is a value judgement...a judgement based in the rightness or wrongness of something, or on the usefulness of something, based on a personal view (comparison or other relativity...such as personal values).

    (Taken from Wikipedia so you can't argue with that!

    I think everyone makes judgements every day.

    I think everyone makes value judgements every day (ie is judgemental). If you are walking down a deserted street alone and there is a big scruffy man with a bulge under his belt you might cross the road. If there is a news story about a parent who molested and killed their kid I'm sure we would all pass a value judgement on that.

    Many opinions expressed on BH are value judgements as they are based on personal values and beliefs. If you say to another mum "I don't believe in letting a baby cry because of XYZ" then you are theoretically being judgemental. You may put a smiley face at the end of the post and say you respect another mums right to chose differently but in the end you are essentially saying one way is right and another is wrong.

    Sometimes we express our value judgments out loud and sometimes we dont. Some people do more than others.

    I see conflict comes on BH due to:
    - People have different levels of sensitivity and they can feel picked on when someone passes a value judgement on something they do (ie if you smoke when preggers then you may feel picked on when someone criticises Chrissie Swan).
    - politeness, empathy, knowing the facts, adding embelishment and sensitivity get confused with being judgmental. We are all judgemental, we just may not display the other traits
    - Some people are more honest about what they are thinking and this makes others uncomfortable
    - We all have a different line in the sand on when it is/isn't OK to express our value judgements out loud and differences can make some uncomfortable. For me, there is a difference between real life and being on an anonymous forum. There is a freedom on forums to be more honest about what you are thinking that you don't have in real life. Maybe not so much in specific sections (termination, cio etc) but definitely in the general sections. Yeah I know you still can't be nasty to people but being honest can make for better debates (and learning by all parties) as long as people play nice.
    - some people just can't hack differing opinions, lash out and play whatever card they need to to shut the other person down (other than examining each point in a factual debate so both sides may learn something) . People who are in the 'majority opinion' tend to get overly confident and do this. " Your judgemental", "your ignorant", "your arrogant", "troll"... I smirk everytime I read these types of comments as it means the person themselves is narrowminded and either doesn't have the skill to/can't be bothered properly dissecting, absorbing, understanding and responding to what has been said in a constructive manner.

    In summary, as long as people are abiding by the forum rules we all need to get some balls, stop whining and crying fowl when someone disagrees. Debate the points, not the person. Personal attacks are not needed.
    Last edited by VicPark; 12-02-2013 at 07:47.

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  11. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    As to the comments that anyone that disagrees with the 'clique' is attacked, I don't buy that. what I see is a handful of posters that continually post offensive, judgmental stuff... people attempt to challenge their thinking... then they get angry and say people are bullying them.

    If someone said IRL what some people say about smoking mums, single mums etc etc I firmly believe people would say hang on, that's pretty nasty, have you considered a b or c in the equation? which is what happens here. It only descends into back biting when the member saying outrageous things then loses the plot and says they are being picked on.

    Own you words. If you are strong enough to say what you know is going to cause friction, expect there to be backlash. Otherwise it does come off trollish.
    I don't think it's fair to completely dismiss someones feelings though, perhaps if they are feeling picked on it should be considered why.
    It's ok to give your opinion and discuss it and strongly disagree with each other. But if a few people are saying things (example to the OP) get off your high horse, that's arrogant and a few other examples she gave, I think that can make people feel picked on. It stops becoming a debate and 'feels' personal, it can go downhill pretty quickly from there.
    I assume when people say clique they see the same group with the same style of debating towards other posters and that's why they feel like that maybe?
    But I don't think it's rigt to dismiss the person feeling picked on because they have a contraversial opinion and should own it. They probably do own their opinion but don't want 10 people all at once calling them names or being aggressive towards them.
    There are ways to discuss and debate and there are ways you don't. Calling someone arrogant I would say would kill the debate right there. There is always 2 sides it is never only 1 person to blame when a conversation goes downhill.
    Last edited by Buttermilk; 12-02-2013 at 07:47.

  12. #39
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    Default Tell me....is forming an opinion and expressing that opinion - the same as `judging'?

    I've seen a few mentions of cliques. I haven't really noticed any? There are posters that often agree with certain other members, I just assume they have similar values or beliefs/opinions. A clique is a group that has these shared views but also excludes others- I don't think I've seen anyone get "excluded" - I would think that is more being ignored rather than being debated with. There are some people on here that have radically different views to mine on say, vaccination, something I am extremely passionate about. I don't ignore those people and often find while I disagree with them on one topic, I may well agree with them on others- I don't just ignore them and discount their other views because I have one differing viewpoint. Obviously there will be members that we disagree with on more than one thing, that's just life.

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    A judgement is just our brains way of forming an opinion - so I would say yes it was a judgment call In saying that, I do believe there are fair and unfair judgements. I don't think you are any of those things OP, despite not being in agreeance with you re the smoking.

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