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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Possibly. I would argues though that 20 years of drug addiction could lead to a mental illness. That's what happened to my brother. He had depression as a teenager, became an alcoholic now 30 years of constant drinking means he has severe mental problems.

    Even still with all this we were unable to get him committed. The process is a nightmare. He's been in and out of rehab his whole life.
    Absolutely and worst part is the damage is irreversable on the brain He has serious issues with it and they abuse prescription meds too they get off the streets. So the treatment they use for mental illness like anti d's still isn't suitable for a drug addict.
    I wish there was a way to get them court ordered into rehab or such a place existed where they HAVE to stay there for 1-2years and then HAVE to stay in a half way house. I mean you have to want to and it doesn't work if you don't, but jail or mental hospital is no place for a drug addict and it doesn't help

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlissedOut View Post
    I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have a facility where mothers can receive treatment and support during their pregnancies, full time, working with the goal to a) produce a healthy child, b) improve the mother's life, c) possibly create a situation where that mother can care for her child effectively once born.

    I too think enforcing it is a slippery slope.
    I would fully support the above, without enforcement and imprisonment though.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Why is it that, once a baby is born, it has the right to a life free from harm, neglect and abuse.....but before then, has zero rights whatsoever? Ironic when pregnancy is the most CRUCIAL time for development, negative actions during pregnancy have the potential to impact on the quality of life that child has, and can cause lifelong health problems.

    As soon as a woman does something to impact on baby's well being once born, they are vilified - but it's perfectly acceptable to neglect your unborn child's needs and place them at risk of harm? Crazy....
    Last edited by ~ElectricPink~; 08-02-2013 at 14:55.

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  5. #84
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    Ironically somebody mentioned how men can damage their sperm (and therefore future children's health) but there are no laws proposed to 'step in' with this.

    In a perfect world, yes, fetus' should be protected. But as has been mentioned many, many times in this thread once you give a fetus rights you interfere with crucial abortion laws. In Georgia there was legislation proposed to have women charged for miscarriage - I don't want to end up like that. I would like to see pregnant women's crimes/MHIs treated the same as any other citizen's in this country.

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    I think in any case where somebody is a chronic abuser something should be done. All humans are important and worthy of help, pregnant or not.

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  9. #86
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    Just a few thoughts...

    I find the statement "the rights of an unborn child should be considered ahead of the mother" a fairly scary one, and one that has other ramifications as a principle upon which to base legislation...ie abortion legislation.

    There will always be people in the world who make bad choices, but the vast majority of pregnant mothers try to make the best possible choices for their unborn baby and are the correct people to be making those decisions, not the State in my opinion.

    I've worked in an area related to child protection and my observation was that it was a vastly underfunded area, where reports made about child abuse and neglect often didn't get nearly the attention they ought. If we add the additional task of being responsible for the welfare of unborn babies, it would stretch the system even further.

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  11. #87
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    You people need to stop watching so many movies. We're not all conservative rednecks. None of these ideas are laws, they're being considered, just like here. And where people have tried cases like this, the Supreme Court overturns them. Interesting not one person has commented on how Norway actually has passed this law that mandates treatment for pregnant addicts.

    Anyway, this is an interesting discussion and it is indeed a slippery slope. I understand what they are trying to do and why but telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body is just wrong. Yes, the unborn child has rights too, but there's an awfully big gray area between the two.

    Do I think you're a terrible person if you continue to smoke/drink/take drugs while pregnant? Yes, you're a terrible person and I personally consider it child abuse. And I'm not talking about one here or there. I mean the constant substance abuse including smoking. But do I have the right to tell you that you can't do that? Absolutely not! You're a terrible person because you made a choice to become addicted to that substance (I'm not including genuinely sick/mentally ill people here). Addiction is not a disease, it's a choice. In the end you might need help overcoming it, but it's not a disease. You did it to yourself. You knew the risk and did it anyway. Take responsibility for your actions and the effect it will have on people around you, including your unborn child, and get help to overcome it. I know some may not agree but that's my opinion and I'm not going to argue it.

    I agree education will go far for the reasons mentioned above. It should happen in school before the pregnancy starts and then be offered throughout pregnancy. This goes for the mother AND the father even if the chances of them being a cohesive family unit is small. Give all of them the best chance at a normal life. I think something drastic needs to be done, especially with mothers from high risk areas that have already had babies with FAS or the like. I don't think locking them up is the answer but I do think they should have a place to go to get clean and get help. If they don't go then the child should be removed from the situation but then what effects does that have? I don't think we should take away everyone's rights because of a few. Where will it end? How early/late into the pregnancy do you apply the laws? Am I going to be put in jail because I chose not to have a flu vaccine months before I even conceived? Unborn children do need to be protected, but at what cost?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ElectricPink~ View Post
    Why is it that, once a baby is born, it has the right to a life free from harm, neglect and abuse.....but before then, has zero rights whatsoever? Ironic when pregnancy is the most CRUCIAL time for development, negative actions during pregnancy have the potential to impact on the quality of life that child has, and can cause lifelong health problems.

    As soon as a woman does something to impact on baby's well being once born, they are vilified - but it's perfectly acceptable to neglect your unborn child's needs and place them at risk of harm? Crazy....
    This is exactly what i cant get my head around. I find it very hypocritical....

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    I tend to lean towards you ElectricPink. I also think it's crazy that you can end a babies life at 38weeks gestation but not the second they're born, so long as it's still in the womb you can do whatever you want to a baby
    I don't agree with abortion at that sort of gestation anyway and I think if a baby is harmed say in an accident, the baby's life should be considered in the charges. I can draw a line in the sand when it comes to bodily autonomy. When a baby can sustain life outside the womb I think it should have it's own unique rights.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Ironically somebody mentioned how men can damage their sperm (and therefore future children's health) but there are no laws proposed to 'step in' with this.

    In a perfect world, yes, fetus' should be protected. But as has been mentioned many, many times in this thread once you give a fetus rights you interfere with crucial abortion laws. In Georgia there was legislation proposed to have women charged for miscarriage - I don't want to end up like that. I would like to see pregnant women's crimes/MHIs treated the same as any other citizen's in this country.
    Following this logic though if abortion is illegal after 20 weeks (or 24 weeks in Vic) then isn't it arguable that the fetus does have rights after that point in gestation? So if the mother did continue to engage in life endangering activities she could be charged (on the logic that the fetus could survive outside of her after a certain gestation period)?

    I'm not saying I agree - I initially had a reply based on abortion as well but given there are legal parameters around the timing of abortion I wasn't sure what the answer was.

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