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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue View Post
    If a family member has a drinking problem, do you 'intervene'? Or do you say to yourself that it's their body and you have no right to challenge them on their behaviour? If those circumstances are acceptable, we could argue that there is valid cause to enforce a law that gets pregnant women with alcohol and drug problems off the street and healthy for the sake of their unborn child.
    We can always (and should) challenge someone's destructive/negligent behaviour! But we can't hold them down and perform a lobotomy on them.

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  3. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by the girls mum View Post
    Your so quick to dismiss your own rights, why?

    I guess thats not how I look at it.

    If I was the pregnant woman who was harming her baby by excessive drinking or drug taking but not being able to stop because of being addicted, maybe being locked up wouldnt be the worst outcome that I would have to live with?

    I know that is a unpopular viewpoint but it doesnt make me uncaring or stupid.
    No it might not be the worst outcome, but who decides? At what point/at what level of your problem behaviour would you be deemed 'lock-upable'? (Assuming you're honest and up-front regarding your own addiction that is)

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    No it might not be the worst outcome, but who decides? At what point/at what level of your problem behaviour would you be deemed 'lock-upable'?
    Maybe when u are seriously endangering anothers life?

    Eta - i dont agree with locking up i dont think, but can see both sides here.

    Interesting discussion



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  7. #54
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMuppet View Post
    People may say, 'oh I'd never do that, so the law wouldn't effect me.' But once people accept one level of control, its easy to gradually increase it in stepping stones.
    This is why I'm conflicted about the issue, I can see why it's dangerous to go down this road. It's just such a hard thing to imagine a tiny defenseless baby suffering from their mothers negligence

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  9. #55
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    There's so many different ways you can look at it.

    If there's a woman on meth (the most addictive drug, the most terrible drug, near impossible to get off) whilst pregnant, how do you deal with it? Do you try counselling them knowing that they are still going to get their hits? Or do you have to lock them up?

    I have a close relative who has been addicted to ice for probably 10 years now and each time she does do time, I'm relieved. It's sad to say, but jail is better than a life on ice. It's just so hard to get off it...

  10. #56
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue View Post
    If you commit a crime, you forfeit your right to be a free member of society. We're all ok with that aren't we? If a family member has a drinking problem, do you 'intervene'? Or do you say to yourself that it's their body and you have no right to challenge them on their behaviour? If those circumstances are acceptable, we could argue that there is valid cause to enforce a law that gets pregnant women with alcohol and drug problems off the street and healthy for the sake of their unborn child.
    You are talking about one family member, this is about a person carrying another human inside them, you cannot separate them. You are taking away someones rights by giving rights to something they are carrying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue View Post
    I think talking about locking up women for having a c-section or eating cheese or not breastfeeding (seriously???) is an over-reaction, the risk profiles would be drastically different.
    Why is it an over-reaction there are real risks involved in these things. Sorry but the bolded bit made me laugh, oh the irony, so these babies are not as important as those babies of drug addicted mothers? Do you know the death rates/health implications of the babies affected by what you have listed?


    *I just want to add that I am not trying to compare particular choices simply the right to make any choices. I support women to make ANY of these choices.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMuppet View Post
    Its very, very scary. One more way to control women and make our bodies public property.

    They would never suggest this level of control for men.

    I do not condone drinking and drug taking during pregnancy, and am so sad for the poor babies but this kind of proposal is draconian. People may say, 'oh I'd never do that, so the law wouldn't effect me.' But once people accept one level of control, its easy to gradually increase it in stepping stones.

    More education, better support for people at risk of self harm behaviours like this (because alcoholism and drug addiction is a form of self harm) and working on the root causes are a positive step in the solution. That is the way forward.
    Yep

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    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    We can always (and should) challenge someone's destructive/negligent behaviour! But we can't hold them down and perform a lobotomy on them.
    Actually, you can. My SIL suffered with a severe mental illness and after the birth of her third child had a breakdown and was hospitalised, where she had 2 lobotomies performed on her (against her wishes). This was 18 years ago in Qld. If you are committed under an order the hospital has this power.

    After her breakdown, she continued to suffer severe problems and was unable to care for her 2 children (one an infant). My brother was caring for her and my parents took their children and looked after them for about 8 months. Once she received proper medical attention she had the children returned (none of this was official).

    While I don't agree with taking away women's rights, what happens to babies when there are no family to intervene and look after the kids? What I'd like to see is an extension of the mental health's tribunal's powers to have someone removed into care who is suffering from a mental illness when they are about to become a parent. I have lived with 2 brothers with severe alcoholism, and watched my SIL almost destroy her life through mental illness, while having babies and raising children amongst the mess.

    the mental health tribunal is the right place for these decisions to be made - they currently have so little powers though the whole process is a waste of time.

    My SIL missed the whole first year of her son's life because of her problems. I can't help wondering if she'd had access to treatment while pregnant some of this might have been avoided.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by wantingtostart View Post
    There's so many different ways you can look at it.

    If there's a woman on meth (the most addictive drug, the most terrible drug, near impossible to get off) whilst pregnant, how do you deal with it? Do you try counselling them knowing that they are still going to get their hits? Or do you have to lock them up?

    I have a close relative who has been addicted to ice for probably 10 years now and each time she does do time, I'm relieved. It's sad to say, but jail is better than a life on ice. It's just so hard to get off it...
    At the end of the day. Someone who is on meth has to want to give it up. It's up to them as sad as it is Society needs to have support/education in place to make it possible for people to get and stay clean. There are plenty of drugs in jail. I don't think jail is the answer.

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    Default Re: Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cue View Post
    This is why I'm conflicted about the issue, I can see why it's dangerous to go down this road. It's just such a hard thing to imagine a tiny defenseless baby suffering from their mothers negligence
    Agreed completely unfair and cruel. Its abuse.

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