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  1. #31
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    I am for full bodily autonomy and find this idea revolting and scary.

    A woman should be able to do as she pleases with her body so long as it is legal. Smoking and drinking are legal. Prescribed medication is legal. Over the counter medication is legal. Extreme sports are legal (well... Some lol). Eating soft cheese is legal. Etc etc.

    If a woman chooses to do any of these it is her choice to do so, regardless of whether or not she is pregnant. Her pregnancy doesn't mean she loses the right to make choices for her own body and not should it.

    Most pregnant women will consider their unborn when making these decisions, some will not. It doesn't matter what I think is morally right because bodily autonomy is bodily autonomy... Regardless of ethics. I can't say I believe a woman can do as she wants with her body and then set conditions on that. Then it's no longer her right to choose for herself.

    If a woman does something illegal (taking illicit drugs) while pregnant then she should face prosecution for her crime, but the same as everyone else should.

    Protecting the unborn via legislation is a dangerous move and one I never want to see happen. It could mean that a woman is charged with the death of her unborn child if she miscarries if she may have done something as simple as having Subway for lunch which may have caused it.

    The minute that baby is born and living separately from its mother, it deserves protection, but before that point it only exists if its mother does and to remove her rights because of it is just terrifying for women everywhere.

    I will do as I please while pregnant. I will decide what is a worthwhile risk and what is not. Just as I do each and every day as a mother. I don't need to fear that stupid laws like this will eventually lead to my incarceration if I do something someone else might deem risky, like eat oysters or plan to homebirth.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    We have fetal homicide laws in WA already so they are recognized. I'm not surprised this has started in QLD, women don't even have the right to an abortion unless the continuation of pregnancy would pose serious danger to the mother physically or mentally.

    I agree it is a terrible slippery slope for women's rights



    What about all the children who are born via elective c/s or who are not breastfed? They are disadvantaged (or even die) because of the actions or inactions of the birth mother.

    This whole concept sickens me.
    Were those laws actually passed in WA?

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    Very very very scary if these laws are brought in.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Were those laws actually passed in WA?
    My apologies seems it's not in effect yet. But this article says it is based on laws in QLD "Based on a law already in force in Queensland, it would carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment." http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/fetal-homicide-laws-to-be-introduced-in-western-australia/story-e6frg14c-1226281446135
    Quote Originally Posted by the girls mum View Post
    I know, I know its her right etc - what about the rights of that poor unborn baby!!!!
    Your so quick to dismiss your own rights, why?

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  7. #35
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    I am really concerned about this just being the beginning.

    I know the majority of women do not do these particular things but where will it end and who will stand up for you when they come to take away your rights?

    I am getting kind of tired of standing up for everyone else's rights to only be told I don't deserve my own twice in this thread homebirth has been bought up, I know those posters have not said women do not deserve the right to hb but that it was even bought up shows where these laws will head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    The idea of this law being passed makes me hang my head.


    I am not an incubator, I am a woman.


    These women need help, locking them up is not going to solve anything.


    Bodily autonomy must always be paramount. Btw, my heart aches to think of some of these babies in such situations, but the slope is just too slippery.

    Yes, it's brutal to say the least.


    I also don't agree with terms like 'undeserving' or 'evil' either. People don't become addicts because they are evil! They are human beings who have problems and need help. Yes a lot of addicts are their own worst enemy and don't help themselves but that doesn't make them bad people. Hopeless maybe but not evil.

    My cousin has suffered from mental illness since a late teen and she would always stop taking her meds, and also took drugs. She had a baby who had to be detoxed during the first week of his life and had been raised by my uncle and his wife. As far as I know he is doing well (now 8 years old).

    My cousin continues to struggle with mental illness and substance abuse and always will. She is not evil, she is sick and in more ways than not, hopeless. But her life is her life - she can be offered help forever but we can't force her to take it or be able to cope with it. There was no question the baby was not to be raised by her and luckily she had family who could take him in. There was no 'if' factor about her raising this baby - she clearly couldn't and in cases like this it's clear. I think our family would have been all for her being kept in a rehab facility when she was pregnant though but none of us were aware of her drug-addiction as she hid it well (and her mental illness made her erratic anyway).

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    I dont see this ever happening.

    But hypothetically, if it did, who on earth would oversee such a scheme? Certainly not the police, they barely have enough resources to do their job as it is. I dont see the Qld Government putting up the money to employ people to assess pregnant women and then pay to place them in safe houses if their unborn child is deemed to be at risk. They surely couldn't expect the woman, who has in effect been locked up, to pay for the 'privilege'.

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    Why arent drug taking, risk taking, alcoholic men who are making damaged sperm locked up for say 6 months prior to becoming Dads?

    Damaged sperm create damaged children

    Ooops - sorry - can't do that now can we....

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  14. #39
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    Yes, it's brutal to say the least.


    I also don't agree with terms like 'undeserving' or 'evil' either. People don't become addicts because they are evil! They are human beings who have problems and need help. Yes a lot of addicts are their own worst enemy and don't help themselves but that doesn't make them bad people. Hopeless maybe but not evil.

    ).
    Well said. Sorry to hear about your cousin

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  16. #40
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