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  1. #311
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    I think where we are coming from is as a family member and emotional experience.
    Locking up an addict (ie. forced rehab) sounds harsh, but when you watch your sibling/son/daughter who you love very much absolutely destroy their life and slowly kill themselves it becomes very very hard to not be able to do anything.
    If it was my son/daughter and they were carrying my grandchild, I'd be gutted that I or anyone else couldn't force them into treatment, simply to keep them both alive.
    This is not about punishment for me, it's simply the above, keep them safe, force them into treatment, even if it doesn't work, rehab for a year can save their life. As it stands there is nothing you can do but watch and hope.
    My brother has been in and out of jail and rehab, he stays in rehab for less than 3months each time because it gets hard. He has alot of issues, there will be no light bulb moment, he'e buried countless friends, he has a terminal disease, he's o/d 3 times. He's almost 40years old, He's been doing hard drugs since he was 18. If this was available 10 years ago where would he be now? No one knows, but trying is better than what is avaible now.
    We don't take drug issues seriously enough in this country. It was hard enough to get safe injecting houses set up, let alone provide subsidised rehabs.
    Drug addicts are very hard to get through to, they are ruled by their addiction and no one else matters.
    Last edited by Someones Mummy; 09-02-2013 at 21:04.

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  3. #312
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    I think where we are coming from is as a family member and emotional experience.
    Locking up an addict (ie. forced rehab) sounds harsh, but when you watch your sibling/son/daughter who you love very much absolutely destroy their life and slowly kill themselves it becomes very very hard to not be able to do anything.
    If it was my son/daughter and they were carrying my grandchild, I'd be gutted that I or anyone else couldn't force them into treatment, simply to keep them both alive.
    This is not about punishment for me, it simply the above, keep them safe, force them into treatment, even if it doesn't work, rehab for a year can save their life. As it stands there is nothing you can do but watch and hope. My brother has been in and out of jail and rehab, he stays in rehab for less than 3months each time because it gets hard. He has alot of issues, there will be no light bubl moment, he'e buried countless friends, he has a terminal disease, he's o/d 3 times. He's almost 40years old, He's been doing hard drugs since he was 18. If this was available 10 years ago where he be now? No one knows, but trying is better than what is avaible now.
    We don't take drug issues seriously enough in this country. It was hard enough to get safe injecting houses set up, let alone provide subsidised rehabs.
    Drug addicts are very hard to get through to, they are ruled by their addiction and no one else matters.
    Coming from an emotional point of view, I do agree with what you have written here.

    Definitely agree that d&a issues are not viewed correctly or taken seriously enough. Alot more funding and programs are needed.

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  5. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    I think where we are coming from is as a family member and emotional experience.
    Locking up an addict (ie. forced rehab) sounds harsh, but when you watch your sibling/son/daughter who you love very much absolutely destroy their life and slowly kill themselves it becomes very very hard to not be able to do anything.
    If it was my son/daughter and they were carrying my grandchild, I'd be gutted that I or anyone else couldn't force them into treatment, simply to keep them both alive.
    This is not about punishment for me, it's simply the above, keep them safe, force them into treatment, even if it doesn't work, rehab for a year can save their life. As it stands there is nothing you can do but watch and hope.
    My brother has been in and out of jail and rehab, he stays in rehab for less than 3months each time because it gets hard. He has alot of issues, there will be no light bulb moment, he'e buried countless friends, he has a terminal disease, he's o/d 3 times. He's almost 40years old, He's been doing hard drugs since he was 18. If this was available 10 years ago where would he be now? No one knows, but trying is better than what is avaible now.
    We don't take drug issues seriously enough in this country. It was hard enough to get safe injecting houses set up, let alone provide subsidised rehabs.
    Drug addicts are very hard to get through to, they are ruled by their addiction and no one else matters.
    I completely get why you feel the way you do. We are never going to agree on some facets of this debate but clearly drug abuse has effected you and your family deeply so it's not hard to understand why you have the stance you do.

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  7. #314
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    How would they even police this? Drug test all pregnant women?
    Just like any other law... Rely on dibber dobbers, proof of a crime, courts etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    She sounds like a scared child from an abusive home that didn't have the skills to cope with motherhood. No, I don't condone her using. But I think before you have a 'lock her in jail and throw away the kid' mentality you need to recognise the context here. ok the child was taken at birth and the aunty took it. Short time maybe fair enough. But people can and do change.... your approach excludes that possibility.
    She was smoking weed before she got pregnant and never stopped. I do agree that some people change but she harmed that baby why should she ever get it back? How many other victims do we hand back to their abusers? My sister is a labor and delivery nurse and you cant imagine what she sees and often the baby is sent home one lady came in to deliver a baby high on cocaine She got to take the baby home IMO that baby should have been taken forever and the mother charged with child abuse who will stick up for these babies? People get rehab in jail so there they can show they have changed and if they get pregnant again and still use then they should lose that baby and get more time its crazy to me to think that a baby has no rights simply because we dont want to go against a womans right to her own body. That should stop as soon as what they are doing affects another persons right to be born healthy and not full of drugs and issues.


    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    This is not aimed at you directly but I find the 'bodily autonomy over everything else' is a ridiculous pie in the sky notion.

    We don't have full autonomy in other aspects of our lives. There are things, that society as a whole dictates is unacceptable and this is reflected in the law. Murder, assault, burglary, rape, fraud.... The list goes on. We can't do whatever we want, we don't make our own rules.

    We don't have full bodily autonomy either. We can't do whatever we what we want with our bodies as there are some things society has dictated are unacceptable and this is reflected in the law. We can't put certain drugs into our body. Women can't walk around in the mall top less. We cant kill ourselves. Men can't slap the salami in public.

    We can't do whatever we want with our own bodies, this is nothing new. So why are people getting so worked up about restricting a pregnant woman's ability to break the law by taking drugs... While she happens to be pregnant? What makes this issue so different? I know people believe this will lead to an erosion of womens rights but I think thats cr@p. Such a law will never cover pregnant women eating cheese or lettuce. It will only extend so far as society wants it to. We live in a democracy with freedom of speech and regular elections. And Approximately 50%of the voting public have vaginas.

    If a woman thinks that her life is diminished because she no longer has the right to do stuff universally accepted as wrong, harming her baby in the process.... then I suggest her life wasnt worth much to start with.

    A more likely scenario .. I think the feminists amongst us are over thinking the issue in some parts (... Being fat and pregnant will get you arrested) and underthinking it in others (bubs and mums cant both have rights....women must be able to do whatever they want with their body).
    Honestly I think womens rights has gone a bit far in some areas, this whole her body her choice when she is carrying an innocent baby to term is sickening to me, if you dont want to do what it takes to have a healthy happy non crack addicted baby why not just abort it and carry on with your life?

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  10. #316
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    I'm going to go against the grain her and likely be shot down for it but having see adults with drawl from heroin and babies born addicted and to be weaned of it, I a, totally against the use of drugs while pregnant. Intact I'm against drugs all together but adults choosing to take of that's is they buisiness but when pregnant there is another life to think of as well, you wouldn't shoot up a neonate with a smack out of the womb so why in the womb. I realise addicts to not choose every hit but they made a choice to try it, which trying it enough times leads to addiction, and yes I get that it's hard to come of smack but does that make it ok for a baby to have to do what the mother can not do ?

    I think drug testing should be part of prenatal care and I think addicts that are pregnant should be given the opportunity to go to government funded rehab to try and get clean and be monitored through out there pregnancy. If the are to far addicted to want to get clean when the help is there in a safe environment then I think that there is grounds admit them on a pshycoligist ground for the simple fact that the drugs in their system are likely to be effecting there ability to make a sound choice for them selfs and there baby.

    Most drug addicts want to get clean but the find it hard impossible even and well this is a way of helping them.

    I also am all for drug testing workers, school students uni students etc, it may be seen as a violation of human rights to some but drugs ruin lives they rip families apart, drugs hav destroyed some of th best people I have known and clearly what we are doing ow is not helping, we are breath tested to drive a car dh is drug tested to work but its not ok to drug tet pregnant women ? Why is this.

    If you think it's not ok to drug test pregnant women tell me this, do you think it's ok for tini babies to be born addicted to smack, laying there twitching and jerking in their humidicribs with sheets draped over their cribs because they are so sensitive to the light. Same with alcohol consumption of you do not think mothers should be tested for alcohol in there pre natal tests are you ok with babies being born with fetal alcohol syndrome

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  12. #317
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Mothers with mental illness should have the same prenatal care as any other ,other with a medical condition to make sure the condition is as ell managed as can be.
    I know Many fantastic mothers its phcyciatric disorders

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    She was smoking weed before she got pregnant and never stopped. I do agree that some people change but she harmed that baby why should she ever get it back? How many other victims do we hand back to their abusers? My sister is a labor and delivery nurse and you cant imagine what she sees and often the baby is sent home one lady came in to deliver a baby high on cocaine She got to take the baby home IMO that baby should have been taken forever and the mother charged with child abuse who will stick up for these babies? People get rehab in jail so there they can show they have changed and if they get pregnant again and still use then they should lose that baby and get more time its crazy to me to think that a baby has no rights simply because we dont want to go against a womans right to her own body. That should stop as soon as what they are doing affects another persons right to be born healthy and not full of drugs and issues.




    Honestly I think womens rights has gone a bit far in some areas, this whole her body her choice when she is carrying an innocent baby to term is sickening to me, if you dont want to do what it takes to have a healthy happy non crack addicted baby why not just abort it and carry on with your life?
    Nobody on this thread has ever said that the idea of a baby being born addicted is anything less than horrifying. I can't fathom taking drugs while pregnant personally. I gave up a truckload of different drugs to have my first baby, as well as smoking and even coffee because I just could not do it to him.... So it would be easy for me to sit back and say that everyone should be able to do that because I could, but I don't for a minute think that just because I could that it's the same for everyone.

    There's so much area in between believing its ok for parents to carry on using/drinking etc or abusing poor innocent children and the whole 'sorry, you stuffed up, no second chances'

    IMO, alot more money needs to go into bridging that gap to help people become the parents their children deserve them to be. More services need to be available and people need to be aware or them. Human beings need support not judgement.

    To say 'you stuffed up, that's it' is really off putting to me. We have all made mistakes, some seem bigger than others and are less socially acceptable/more damaging, yes, but all human beings deserve support. Of course children need to be removed from dangerous situations but the whole one strike and you're out it really upsetting to me.

    All it does is further alienate those in society that are the most in need (in this situation, women.)

    Like someone else said, what about people who do other damaging things while pregnant that aren't illegal? What about someone who has something like an eating disorder and continues to act out during pregnancy knowing it could harm their baby?
    Last edited by Ffrenchknickers; 10-02-2013 at 06:51.

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  15. #319
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    Until a baby can live outside on it's own, I believe the mother must come first. There can be no half way, a fetus cannot have rights without the mother losing some of hers. No one thinks that a woman doing all those awful things when pregnant is a good thing, or even an acceptable thing. I wish the pro lifers would stop twisiting everything to suit their agenda, it is tiresome.

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    Didn't you say that her parents and family do drugs too? If that is the case she didn't stand a chance really did she, she is only really a child herself. Where was her help when she was brought up in a house like that? Where was her chance? i find that story very sad, I feel really sorry for her.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    She was helped or at least they tried she went to a group home with therapy etc but broke out and took off to smoke weed, they put her in a great school and offered her a place to live while going to school but she had to stay clean she didnt she skipped school to go get high. Not sure what else they could have done, they tried she didnt care so they took the baby. I just wish they would have gotten that baby far away and never let her see her again but they didnt once she gets out of Juvenal hall for beating someone up so bad they went to the hospital for weeks over you guessed it weed she will get to see the baby because her aunt adopted the baby. So this poor baby who could have escaped this life style has been put right into it, so no doubt the next pregnancy she will do the same why shoudlnt she there was no punishment she still gets to see the baby





    I think (I know I will get flamed) that once a woman is pregnant there are some rights that need to be a bit more under control for the sake of the child. A child shouldnt suffer a life time of problems so the woman doesnt have her rights dabbled with.

    How is saying its the womans body its her right to do drugs and destroy another human in the process while pregnant. How can having babies being born with so many issues be ok just because of womens rights? I dont understand this argument so these are serious questions


 

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