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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    Yep that would be me. I still believe it is the mother that must come first.
    What if she has a mental health issue as well as a D or A addiction? What if it was your sister, she was bipolar, off her meds, killing herself with alcohol and pregnant? Isn't her right to have the best chance to have a sane, happy life?

    Sorry I still am unable to work out where people stand on this ie where there are mental health issues as well as addictions.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    Well I don't defend these behaviours, but I understand it to an extent due to family experiences. There's a difference. I don't defend it but I do defend womens rights and feel very concerned that people want to chip away at that, and if we start, where the chipping ends. No-one says its fine to he a drug-addict though.
    I probably should have worded that better, I know most people would never condone being a drug addict while pregnant.

    I just find it interesting that the mother is almost always considered over the baby, not really equally. I understand why, it just always surprises me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    What I find strange is that anybody who doesn't agree or believes in a more holistic and human approach to these issues is seen as condoning such behaviours!
    I didn't ask this question but I'll answer it for me anyway. I think because the pp who argue this don't say what that human, holistic approach is. Apologies if I've misrepresented anyone who has. The overall response is mum comes first (which I wholey agree with except with qualifications when there is a serious mental illness at play) without suggesting what else can be done.

    As someone who has been there, what do you think can be done?

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    What I find strange is that anybody who doesn't agree or believes in a more holistic and human approach to these issues is seen as condoning such behaviours!
    I didn't say they were condoning it and that's honestly not what I meant. As I said I do find it a very complex issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    What if she has a mental health issue as well as a D or A addiction? What if it was your sister, she was bipolar, off her meds, killing herself with alcohol and pregnant? Isn't her right to have the best chance to have a sane, happy life?

    Sorry I still am unable to work out where people stand on this ie where there are mental health issues as well as addictions.
    Her rights as the one who carries the baby, must always come first. I don't always like what that involves, but it must always be the mother that comes first.

    Bodily autonomy is paramount. Always.

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    beebs  (10-02-2013),headoverfeet  (09-02-2013)

  7. #266
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    Her rights as the one who carries the baby, must always come first. I don't always like what that involves, but it must always be the mother that comes first.

    Bodily autonomy is paramount. Always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Of course I agree we need to protect children. I don't know many people who think otherwise, infact I don't know anybody who would even think close to that.

    My question is. What support is this 15 year old child getting? She now not only has the issues her home environment has caused to deal with but the deep hole that will be in here, from losing her child due to what she has done. How much judgement is she receiving compared to support and keeping *her* safe?
    She was helped or at least they tried she went to a group home with therapy etc but broke out and took off to smoke weed, they put her in a great school and offered her a place to live while going to school but she had to stay clean she didnt she skipped school to go get high. Not sure what else they could have done, they tried she didnt care so they took the baby. I just wish they would have gotten that baby far away and never let her see her again but they didnt once she gets out of Juvenal hall for beating someone up so bad they went to the hospital for weeks over you guessed it weed she will get to see the baby because her aunt adopted the baby. So this poor baby who could have escaped this life style has been put right into it, so no doubt the next pregnancy she will do the same why shoudlnt she there was no punishment she still gets to see the baby


    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    I probably should have worded that better, I know most people would never condone being a drug addict while pregnant.

    I just find it interesting that the mother is almost always considered over the baby, not really equally. I understand why, it just always surprises me.

    I think (I know I will get flamed) that once a woman is pregnant there are some rights that need to be a bit more under control for the sake of the child. A child shouldnt suffer a life time of problems so the woman doesnt have her rights dabbled with.

    How is saying its the womans body its her right to do drugs and destroy another human in the process while pregnant. How can having babies being born with so many issues be ok just because of womens rights? I dont understand this argument so these are serious questions
    Last edited by Lovemyfam; 09-02-2013 at 16:18.

  10. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    What if she has a mental health issue as well as a D or A addiction? What if it was your sister, she was bipolar, off her meds, killing herself with alcohol and pregnant? Isn't her right to have the best chance to have a sane, happy life?

    Sorry I still am unable to work out where people stand on this ie where there are mental health issues as well as addictions.
    I do Sonja, absolutely. But in my experience someone has to want that for themselves for it to work out that way. No amount of forcing someone will cure them if they are not going to follow through on it. In my cousin's case, she has been institutionalised so many times in her life but she always relapses. She loves her children but is unable to care for them. I really think it can only work if they want it to work - and if they want it to work we will get their permission (fir rehab) and there won't be a need to force them to begin with.

    Im glad it worked out for your relative though. That's really good, buys its just one example.
    Last edited by Ellewood; 09-02-2013 at 16:19.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    Her rights as the one who carries the baby, must always come first. I don't always like what that involves, but it must always be the mother that comes first.

    Bodily autonomy is paramount. Always.
    I don't agree in every case. I've seen women have baby after baby all born addicted to drugs when mother has been given every opportunity of help and laughs in the face of it. Even revels in it, not all people are good. How can it be right to let baby after baby be born suffering without intervening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I didn't ask this question but I'll answer it for me anyway. I think because the pp who argue this don't say what that human, holistic approach is. Apologies if I've misrepresented anyone who has. The overall response is mum comes first (which I wholey agree with except with qualifications when there is a serious mental illness at play) without suggesting what else can be done.

    As someone who has been there, what do you think can be done?
    I struggle so, so much with the damage that can potentially be done to babies in utero. I am one that strongly believes in the humaness of a foetus and I do find myself conflicted.

    I honestly don't know, other than on and individual and personal level. I wish I knew. All I know is that it would be very rare for someone to sort their lives out because someone in a suit or a white coat tells them to. We need more real people out there on the frontline. I just get sick of the judgement. It helps noone. I would love to be able to help more and I wish I had more answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    I didn't say they were condoning it and that's honestly not what I meant. As I said I do find it a very complex issue.
    I just read your next post Gotcha.


 

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