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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    And of course, all the man needs to plead is that he was intoxicated as well.

    Just another point. Someone has said earlier that we don't have forced rehab here - we do have rehab that can take place via interventions from family, friends and the place. I know of one in SA (haven't looked any further afield) - none in WA that i know of.

    When I looked at the site of this place, they basically said that the outcome (in terms of how sober a person stayed) was dependent upon their frame of mind upon discharge, not upon entry. So theoretically, if a person went in not in their "acceptance" frame of mind, they still stand the same chance of rehabilitation as someone who has entered rehab off their own choice.
    This is what I was driving at yesterday. The mental health tribunal currently has no power when the party has a D or A addiction without overwhelming evidence of a mental health issue as well. If there was some way a person with a mental health issue and a D or A addiction could get help while either pregnant or (if the male) about to become a parent that would be wonderful. Having watched 2 close family members simply rot away from alcoholism when they could have spent a year in rehab 15 years ago and had a chance at a normal life - trust me any family would want that for a loved one.

    And it's not a bodily autonomy issue - people are forcibly removed into rehab for mental health issues - irrespective of pregnancy.

    The main issue here is there isn't anywhere near enough funding in this country for rehab clinics - the public ones are full with huge wait lists and the private ones cost a fortune. This isn't a priority for any government.
    Last edited by Sonja; 09-02-2013 at 15:10.

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  3. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    100% more than the ones that didn't enter rehab in the first place.
    I was meaning how many stay sober, so they could work at getting their children back, because under these laws the babies would be removed at birth? yes.

    So if mum doesn't get sober in rehab, baby removed, but no chance of regaining custody, due to substance abuse.

    I think this will cause more to stay away from pre-natal care, maybe even pushed to free birth to stay away from mandatory reporters. It will just push them further and further away from good decisions and care providers.

    LMF I think it is terriibly sad that a 15yr old girl would have her baby removed for smoking a joint. Where are her parents in this situation, letting a minor have sex and do drugs. It all seems like there would be a lot more to the story, at least I hope there would be.

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  5. #243
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    SpecialPatrolGroup is offline T-rex is cranky until she gets her coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    LMF I think it is terriibly sad that a 15yr old girl would have her baby removed for smoking a joint. Where are her parents in this situation, letting a minor have sex and do drugs. It all seems like there would be a lot more to the story, at least I hope there would be.
    Letting? OMG. kids are sneaky little sh!ts at times, and do plenty of things that their parents don't let them do.

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  7. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    Letting? OMG. kids are sneaky little sh!ts at times, and do plenty of things that their parents don't let them do.
    I was being a little cheeky.

    My point being that her cousin was still a child herself, yet was expected to make good decisions. To remove the child for testing positive to pot, I mean the kid is 15. For goodness sakes.

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  9. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    There must be more to it, why was she being drug tested in the first place? I would love to see more being done to reunite birth mothers with their children through support and education. This is where the money should be spent.

    You really think a 15 year old should be locked up for smoking weed? That would be the best option?

    Unless you've been an addict, I don't believe you can really understand just how screwy everything is inside your head. I wish society could meet people where they are at and support instead if vilify them.
    Yes I think a 15 year old that is pregnant and told not to smoke weed and then still does and harms the baby should be jailed for a period and have the child removed for good. They obviously doesnt care about the child.

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    And pot at 15? Half the country would be locked up if they decided to crack down on things like that. It is not ideal at all, but she was 15, that is really young to be pregnant and making big decisions and stuff, lots of people do stupid things at 15 and the majority come good in the end. I hardly think punishing her for the rest of her life is helpful to anyone, including the baby
    Not the rest of her life but for a period of time yes she needed to be punished, as soon as she could she was back out smoking weed and could care less about the baby that was taken away

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Agree. It all sounds really sad(. Where is the family? Where is the support?
    The family was there smoking weed with her mother, cousins etc that is why I was upset they adopted the baby to a family member they put that baby back into a crappy situation when she could have been adopted and away from all that

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    Letting? OMG. kids are sneaky little sh!ts at times, and do plenty of things that their parents don't let them do.
    Absolutely. My parents didnt allow me to have sex, drink and do drugs at 15, but I did.

    Having said that. My children are not allowed to do any of these things, ever

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  12. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Absolutely. My parents didnt allow me to have sex, drink and do drugs at 15, but I did.
    Me too, hence me being a little cheeky in my answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    I was being a little cheeky.

    My point being that her cousin was still a child herself, yet was expected to make good decisions. To remove the child for testing positive to pot, I mean the kid is 15. For goodness sakes.
    I am sure the baby will be ok with any damage done to her because her mom was young. Really things people do is horrible I will never forgive my birth mother because the only reason she had me was so she could get welfare and not have to work. When I found this out I told her I would never forgive her and what a crappy reason to have a child and that I thought she was a low life scum that doesnt deserve children. These things affect children well into adulthood and until these people are held responsible they wont care or change

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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    I was meaning how many stay sober, so they could work at getting their children back, because under these laws the babies would be removed at birth? yes.

    So if mum doesn't get sober in rehab, baby removed, but no chance of regaining custody, due to substance abuse.

    I think this will cause more to stay away from pre-natal care, maybe even pushed to free birth to stay away from mandatory reporters. It will just push them further and further away from good decisions and care providers.

    LMF I think it is terriibly sad that a 15yr old girl would have her baby removed for smoking a joint. Where are her parents in this situation, letting a minor have sex and do drugs. It all seems like there would be a lot more to the story, at least I hope there would be.
    But the evidence shows they do do well. why are people so reluctant to acknowledge that? Live with someone with serious D or A addictions - I would pay the money myself if I had it to get them the help they need but are too ill to get for themselves.

  16. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    The main issue here is there isn't anywhere near enough funding in this country for rehab clinics - the public ones are full with huge wait lists and the private ones cost a fortune. This isn't a priority for any government.
    I agree Sonja, and the more I've researched it, the more I have been gathering information and started to decide to become one of the people to start working towards a solution. I've seen too many lives affected (mine has been one of them) through addiction - and while still in the early days - this is an issue very close to my heart.

    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    I was meaning how many stay sober, so they could work at getting their children back, because under these laws the babies would be removed at birth? yes.

    So if mum doesn't get sober in rehab, baby removed, but no chance of regaining custody, due to substance abuse.

    I think this will cause more to stay away from pre-natal care, maybe even pushed to free birth to stay away from mandatory reporters. It will just push them further and further away from good decisions and care providers.
    I'm in a bit of two minds about this one, as much as I think children should be with their mothers, I actually do think that if a mother has been through rehab and can't remain sober, it is to the detriment of her child, and whilst that child is in their formative years, maybe they are better off in a stable home that isn't with their mother and only having visitation with their mother.

    Whilst some women would be driven "underground", I'm pretty sure that they'd give up their children to other people within a few years as the focus of an addict is very much on themselves. I wouldn't know for certain, however, I strongly suspect that most children with mothers as addicts, would not be with them from birth till 18 because the mother has "gone underground" with them. Even if there are no family members or friends in the mother's life, once they get to school, there'd be a whole host of other parties who'd become involved.

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