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  1. #231
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    In order to give consent to have sex, you have to be of sound mind. Being heavily substance effected negates being able to give informed consent. I'm not saying every man that has had sex with a woman who is drunk should be charged with rape. What I am saying is, I agree with Blueths. Maybe some of the blame for pgs of women with addictions should also fall on the men that get them pg?

    Of course some pgs can happen with one nights stands with a man that has no idea she is a heroin addict. But having had contact with addicted women, most of the time the father is either a long term partner or a man that knows full well of her issues. Often they have substance abuse issues themselves. So this is both their fault.I also wanted to add, that most of us I believe fully support there being lots of support services offered. The sticking point isn't that we are saying turn a blind eye, it's the incarceration that bothers us. Being forced and not being allowed to leave is, by definition incarceration. It doesn't have to mean jail.
    And of course, all the man needs to plead is that he was intoxicated as well.

    Just another point. Someone has said earlier that we don't have forced rehab here - we do have rehab that can take place via interventions from family, friends and the place. I know of one in SA (haven't looked any further afield) - none in WA that i know of.

    When I looked at the site of this place, they basically said that the outcome (in terms of how sober a person stayed) was dependent upon their frame of mind upon discharge, not upon entry. So theoretically, if a person went in not in their "acceptance" frame of mind, they still stand the same chance of rehabilitation as someone who has entered rehab off their own choice.

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  3. #232
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    This is from the website of the facility I referenced in my above post:
    4. Treatment only works if the alcoholic wants it.
    A 25 year study resulted in no statistical difference between self-referred clients and clients that entered treatment due to an intervention. It's not the willingness to go to treatment that matters. It's the willingness and commitment to continue working toward a healthy lifestyle when one leaves treatment that matters.
    Substitute any addiction for alcohol. So for those that say "forced" rehab won't work - I disagree. Sure, we're talking about intervention when I'm quoting this, and not court ordered, but the stats they quote on their intervention is 92% go on to undertake the full rehab program.

    I wonder if we couldn't have court ordered rehab here, and then make intervention services more available. Because it takes a heck of a lot to have an addict seek help by themselves. I know a lot of people believe that addicts will reach out for help when they hit rock bottom, but a lot of addicts never reach bottom and bounce around in denial while others who do reach bottom, have lost all supports and are basically unable to seek help when they get to that stage as they have few resources.

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  5. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    This is from the website of the facility I referenced in my above post:


    Substitute any addiction for alcohol. So for those that say "forced" rehab won't work - I disagree. Sure, we're talking about intervention when I'm quoting this, and not court ordered, but the stats they quote on their intervention is 92% go on to undertake the full rehab program.

    I wonder if we couldn't have court ordered rehab here, and then make intervention services more available. Because it takes a heck of a lot to have an addict seek help by themselves. I know a lot of people believe that addicts will reach out for help when they hit rock bottom, but a lot of addicts never reach bottom and bounce around in denial while others who do reach bottom, have lost all supports and are basically unable to seek help when they get to that stage as they have few resources.
    I wonder how many of those 92percent stay sober after the program?

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    My 15 year old niece had her baby removed for testing positive for weed while pregnant when she delivered the baby she spent an hour with it and they removed it to a foster home. I was so glad until they then adopted it out 8 months later to one of my sisters what a stupid move. IMO the baby should have been far removed from the family, no visitation and my niece should have been locked up. There is no excuse to do these things while you are pregnant we are educated in school about drugs, alcohol and smoking. I think babies should be removed at birth and mothers should go to jail or have a long term birth control. They dont have to pay for it with life long issues like the babies have too.
    There must be more to it, why was she being drug tested in the first place? I would love to see more being done to reunite birth mothers with their children through support and education. This is where the money should be spent.

    You really think a 15 year old should be locked up for smoking weed? That would be the best option?

    Unless you've been an addict, I don't believe you can really understand just how screwy everything is inside your head. I wish society could meet people where they are at and support instead if vilify them.

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  8. #235
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    And pot at 15? Half the country would be locked up if they decided to crack down on things like that. It is not ideal at all, but she was 15, that is really young to be pregnant and making big decisions and stuff, lots of people do stupid things at 15 and the majority come good in the end. I hardly think punishing her for the rest of her life is helpful to anyone, including the baby

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    There must be more to it, why was she being drug tested in the first place? I would love to see more being done to reunite birth mothers with their children through support and education. This is where the money should be spent.

    You really think a 15 year old should be locked up for smoking weed? That would be the best option?

    Unless you've been an addict, I don't believe you can really understand just how screwy everything is inside your head. I wish society could meet people where they are at and support instead if vilify them.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    And pot at 15? Half the country would be locked up if they decided to crack down on things like that. It is not ideal at all, but she was 15, that is really young to be pregnant and making big decisions and stuff, lots of people do stupid things at 15 and the majority come good in the end. I hardly think punishing her for the rest of her life is helpful to anyone, including the baby
    Agree. It all sounds really sad(. Where is the family? Where is the support?

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  11. #237
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Agree. It all sounds really sad(. Where is the family? Where is the support?
    This ^^

    Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that don't have anyone it's incredibly sad.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by MummaJez View Post
    This ^^

    Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that don't have anyone it's incredibly sad.
    It sure is

    I honestly don't know how people do it without support. It's hard enough with all the support in the world. D and A issues just don't go away overnight (or sometimes ever )

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    It sure is

    I honestly don't know how people do it without support. It's hard enough with all the support in the world. D and A issues just don't go away overnight (or sometimes ever )
    I don't know either. I fortunately have never suffered from an addiction but there are so many stories I've read or seen in docos about these people with addiction that have absolutely nobody. There's noone to pull them back and make them get that help and support them through it. Most instances where you don't have that support you can't remain sober, you don't have reliable people keeping you away from it and trying to stop you from taking.

  15. #240
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Quote Originally Posted by onionskin View Post
    I wonder how many of those 92percent stay sober after the program?
    100% more than the ones that didn't enter rehab in the first place.


 

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