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  1. #201
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    Default Re: Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I am currently 12 weeks. I am suffering with dreadful insomnia. I cannot get 2 pharmicists to agree on what is safe for me to take to help me sleep. If I decide to take the advice of one over the other, who can say I am not putting my unborn baby at risk? Or what if I decide to take something not recommended but not proven to be unsafe? I have 3 other children I need to feed and get to school. I cannot drive safely at the moment as I am so tired. Do I out their needs behind those of my unborn baby and continue to suffer without sleep for the next 6 months? What if I have a car accident and one of my living children is hurt?

    What if DH and I separate and he decides my actions are endangering my unborn baby and takes me to court? Sorry but I don't have as much faith in the legal system.
    This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier, when I was commenting about class b medications etc. What about women who remain on anti depressants when pregnant also?

    No one is saying that substance abuse when pregnant is right. What they are saying is That you cannot give an unborn baby rights without compromising the rights of the mother, which could have horrible consequences.

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Why can't we have specific laws like this when it comes to pregnancy? It can just be about alcohol and drugs, laws that are included in the ones we already have. Weekly visits to a counsellor mandatory, urine tests and repeated failure means going to a safe house. Not just get arrested out of the blue, but women who are already under these conditions with docs because they already have children.
    Well then, in that case we should arrest and charge the men who impregnate them! Having sex with a drug-affected woman would be tantamount to rape wouldn't it? Assuming these women are drug-addicted before they became pregnant and it's a known fact, wouldn't it make sense to criminalise any action by another that may cause such a dangerous pregnancy?

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  5. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    No it's not but that's not what I was talking about and you know it. 2 adults at a bbq both having a beer, you are saying one of those adults should not be able to have a beer because they are pregnant.

    An unborn is not a person until they are born and take a breath. Your child/ren are people thus they have rights.


    For some women there are not!
    Sorry I don't think you need to get snappy with me. I honestly don't know what you mean because I'm thinking of other things.
    Ie. You are in a bar and refused alcohol yet the person next to you isn't. This isn't discrimination and perfectly legal actually negligent for someone to serve an intoxicated person alcohol, even though you really want to ingest it and its going into your body, you can't. There are plenty of example where substance abuse and alcohol are controlled.
    Not mention taking drugs is already illegal! Its not a persons right to take it and we are stripping people rights of taking drugs and we accept this already in society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I am currently 12 weeks. I am suffering with dreadful insomnia. I cannot get 2 pharmicists to agree on what is safe for me to take to help me sleep. If I decide to take the advice of one over the other, who can say I am not putting my unborn baby at risk? Or what if I decide to take something not recommended but not proven to be unsafe? I have 3 other children I need to feed and get to school. I cannot drive safely at the moment as I am so tired. Do I out their needs behind those of my unborn baby and continue to suffer without sleep for the next 6 months? What if I have a car accident and one of my living children is hurt?

    What if DH and I separate and he decides my actions are endangering my unborn baby and takes me to court? Sorry but I don't have as much faith in the legal system.
    This is what is frustrating alot of people in the thread that are not on the same page. There will not be a mass heard of women being shipped off to jail for eating a ham sandwich or taking a prescription medication. We are and the article is talking specifically about drug and alcohol addicts, and we know who they are, docs knows, I know women personally so their families know, I have one living next door. It is women taking hard core illegal drugs like ice/meth, heroin, cocain, pot, prescription meds they get illegaly off the streets and alcoholics. They most likely already have other children in state care, are known to police because they've been in jail or have a big criminal history because of their drug taking and alcoholism. These are known and these are the women who would be affected and monitored.
    I just don't believe the slippery slope line at all.

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  7. #204
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    Well said Sonja

    Quote Originally Posted by Lozie View Post
    That is a cop out, there is always options... This sort of stuff irks me! Any person wants or needs something enough you will find a way, and if you cant, deal with it. Simple. Might be harsh but its not always about what you want or need.
    Take your blinkers off for goodness sake! Not all women have $450 laying around, not all women have physical access to abortion clinics! Women living in isolated communities rife with drug and alcohol can't just jump in a cab and go to the local clinic, it's crazy to assume that they can. And just telling them to deal with it? How when they have virtually no support.

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  9. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeetTheBluths View Post
    Well then, in that case we should arrest and charge the men who impregnate them! Having sex with a drug-affected woman would be tantamount to rape wouldn't it? Assuming these women are drug-addicted before they became pregnant and it's a known fact, wouldn't it make sense to criminalise any action by another that may cause such a dangerous pregnancy?
    This is about keeping women and their babies safe and healthy while pregnant and in utero. It has nothing to do with the men.
    This is not about punishment.

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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Sorry I don't think you need to get snappy with me. I honestly don't know what you mean because I'm thinking of other things.
    Ie. You are in a bar and refused alcohol yet the person next to you isn't. This isn't discrimination and perfectly legal actually negligent for someone to serve an intoxicated person alcohol, even though you really want to ingest it and its going into your body, you can't. There are plenty of example where substance abuse and alcohol are controlled.
    Not mention taking drugs is already illegal! Its not a persons right to take it and we are stripping people rights of taking drugs and we accept this already in society.
    Humor me, how are they going to identify you as pregnant? Will we all walk around with it stamped on a foreheads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    This is what is frustrating alot of people in the thread that are not on the same page. There will not be a mass heard of women being shipped off to jail for eating a ham sandwich or taking a prescription medication. We are and the article is talking specifically about drug and alcohol addicts, and we know who they are, docs knows, I know women personally so their families know, I have one living next door. It is women taking hard core illegal drugs like ice/meth, heroin, cocain, pot, prescription meds they get illegaly off the streets and alcoholics. They most likely already have other children in state care, are known to police because they've been in jail or have a big criminal history because of their drug taking and alcoholism. These are known and these are the women who would be affected and monitored.
    I just don't believe the slippery slope line at all.
    I know perfectly well kept women who you would not pick out of a line up that take illegal drugs regularly or frequently binge drink. Once again humor me, how would you identify these women from other women?

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    How do they afford the drugs and alcohol in the first place?
    Heroin addicts can have $1000 a day habits, women beg, borrow, protitute themselves and steal for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Humor me, how are they going to identify you as pregnant? Will we all walk around with it stamped on a foreheads?

    I know perfectly well kept women who you would not pick out of a line up that take illegal drugs regularly or frequently binge drink. Once again humor me, how would you identify these women from other women?
    I'm not going to humor you, you are getting aggressive, lets not continue if you are getting upset with the discussion.
    I have my point of view and you have yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    This is about keeping women and their babies safe and healthy while pregnant and in utero. It has nothing to do with the men.
    This is not about punishment.
    Oh so it's ok if drug-addicts get pregnant... We shouldn't try to stop that happening... It's just not ok after the fact, that's when we should step in.

    I was just suggesting a preventative measure you might consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    How do they afford the drugs and alcohol in the first place?
    Heroin addicts can have $1000 a day habits, women beg, borrow, protitute themselves and steal for it.
    Petrol doesn't cost that much
    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    I'm not going to humor you, you are getting aggressive, lets not continue if you are getting upset with the discussion.
    I have my point of view and you have yours.
    I think they are appropriate questions for the discussion, I am not being aggressive nor am I upset so please don't try to infantise me. IMO your point of view is impractical I was interested to hear how you thought it would be policed?

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