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  1. #191
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    And we already have laws that can take children away and placed in care when you're an addict, it's an extension of that to protect the baby in utero aswell.
    But anyway no rights for that innocent little baby sux that they have to suffer because their mum can do what she likes to them.

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  3. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    By all this logic there would be no laws in this country.
    What it ultimately comes down to is a baby in the womb has no rights and that's it.

    We have drinking laws, you can drink and no one can stop you at home. But in public you can't be drunk, you can be refused service of alcohol and you can't drive, this doesn't lead to silly arrests or people having their rights stripped, we control it to protect society from their actions because they're intoxicated and aren't making sound decisions.
    Why can't we have specific laws like this when it comes to pregnancy? It can just be about alcohol and drugs, laws that are included in the ones we already have. Weekly visits to a counsellor mandatory, urine tests and repeated failure means going to a safe house. Not just get arrested out of the blue, but women who are already under these conditions with docs because they already have children.
    How do we define addict? Believe me they are already on docs and police radar with regular contact and checks. They're not invisible when they have children.
    No it's not that we wouldn't have laws it's that no one on here should be naive enough to think a law such as the one being proposed couldn't be abused or used to confine women for reasons unintended by the legislators.

    It's a weighing up process. Would the legislation be of greater benefit to the public by reducing a potential harm such that that benefit outweighs any potential harm the legislation could cause by it's broader application? If the answer is no then the legislation should not exist. My view is the potential for harm to be created by an Act like this is far greater than any potential good it might do. Seems harsh but women still trump what a woman carries in her uterus.

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  5. #193
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    By all this logic there would be no laws in this country.
    What it ultimately comes down to is a baby in the womb has no rights and that's it.

    We have drinking laws, you can drink and no one can stop you at home. But in public you can't be drunk, you can be refused service of alcohol and you can't drive, this doesn't lead to silly arrests or people having their rights stripped, we control it to protect society from their actions because they're intoxicated and aren't making sound decisions.
    Why can't we have specific laws like this when it comes to pregnancy? It can just be about alcohol and drugs, laws that are included in the ones we already have. Weekly visits to a counsellor mandatory, urine tests and repeated failure means going to a safe house. Not just get arrested out of the blue, but women who are already under these conditions with docs because they already have children.
    How do we define addict? Believe me they are already on docs and police radar with regular contact and checks. They're not invisible when they have children.
    Why should pregnant women have less rights than other people? As you said drinking alcohol isn't illegal. That's discrimination, isn't it?

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  7. #194
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    No it's not that we wouldn't have laws it's that no one on here should be naive enough to think a law such as the one being proposed couldn't be abused or used to confine women for reasons unintended by the legislators.

    It's a weighing up process. Would the legislation be of greater benefit to the public by reducing a potential harm such that that benefit outweighs any potential harm the legislation could cause by it's broader application? If the answer is no then the legislation should not exist. My view is the potential for harm to be created by an Act like this is far greater than any potential good it might do. Seems harsh but women still trump what a woman carries in her uterus.
    Any law can be abused for reasons unintended but we still have them and work with them. You can do whatever as a lawyer but I like to think that's what a judge is for, to ultimately decide if the law is being used within reason and justice.

  8. #195
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Why should pregnant women have less rights than other people? As you said drinking alcohol isn't illegal. That's discrimination, isn't it?
    Drinking is illegal under certain circumstances and that's not discrimination.

  9. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Why should pregnant women have less rights than other people? As you said drinking alcohol isn't illegal. That's discrimination, isn't it?
    Giving alcohol to a minor is illegal though.

    If I gave my 1yo alcohol and DHS found out, there'd be intervention.

    It all depends on whether an unborn, but viable child should have rights or not.

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  11. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    A few words for you

    *Rape (most of which happens in a womans own home by her own spouse)
    *Failed contraception
    *Abortion isn't easy
    *Abortion costs $450 (in WA)
    *Abortion access by states here http://www.childrenbychoice.org.au/i...w-and-practice
    And? 4 of my children were conceived when contraception failed. What has this got to do with anything? There are steps to take, there way to access this if you truly can not put yourself aside for 40 weeks out of your life. Im not asking anyone to be a saint when your growing a human, but sheesh, there is a time when you put yourself, and your needs to the back and bring someone else's forward, I personally hate abortion, i would never have one, but saying that I personally can put aside what i want/need for the duration of my pregnancies. I hope others can to and if they cant, get some help.

    In all honestly and at the risk of offending and having my post on here being picked apart and warped and twisted as it happens sooo often on here.. It is SELFISH to harm and damage your unborn baby, you wouldnt sit back and shoot up your newborn or your toddler or your 6 year old... so why put things in your body that will hurt the development of the baby? I understand that some may think it could be an easy and effective way to get rid of the baby, if its too hard or expensive for an abortion, but most of the time this doesnt work, there need to be more services and options available for these high risk women, instead of institutionalising them, make these services available to them, help them in any, way , shape or form to try to prevent the pregnancies therefore stopping the harming of these babies. I know there are women who truly love and care for their children and want to be good mothers and caregivers but struggles with addiction, those ones need help and should have it offered, and majority would take the assistance but on the flip side there are ones who just dont care. Dont care about the children they have or the ones they are creating. Anyways theres my 2 cents

  12. #198
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Drinking is illegal under certain circumstances and that's not discrimination.
    No it's not but that's not what I was talking about and you know it. 2 adults at a bbq both having a beer, you are saying one of those adults should not be able to have a beer because they are pregnant.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlissedOut View Post
    Giving alcohol to a minor is illegal though.

    If I gave my 1yo alcohol and DHS found out, there'd be intervention.

    It all depends on whether an unborn, but viable child should have rights or not.
    An unborn is not a person until they are born and take a breath. Your child/ren are people thus they have rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lozie View Post
    There are steps to take, there way to access this
    For some women there are not!

  13. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Any law can be abused for reasons unintended but we still have them and work with them. You can do whatever as a lawyer but I like to think that's what a judge is for, to ultimately decide if the law is being used within reason and justice.
    I am currently 12 weeks. I am suffering with dreadful insomnia. I cannot get 2 pharmicists to agree on what is safe for me to take to help me sleep. If I decide to take the advice of one over the other, who can say I am not putting my unborn baby at risk? Or what if I decide to take something not recommended but not proven to be unsafe? I have 3 other children I need to feed and get to school. I cannot drive safely at the moment as I am so tired. Do I out their needs behind those of my unborn baby and continue to suffer without sleep for the next 6 months? What if I have a car accident and one of my living children is hurt?

    What if DH and I separate and he decides my actions are endangering my unborn baby and takes me to court? Sorry but I don't have as much faith in the legal system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post

    For some women there are not!

    That is a cop out, there is always options... This sort of stuff irks me! Any person wants or needs something enough you will find a way, and if you cant, deal with it. Simple. Might be harsh but its not always about what you want or need.


 

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