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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I will never ever be ok with the unborn being put ahead of the mother, ever. This is not Texas (thank god).

    Some people don't deserve to be parents, I get that, some people are so horrible. But if you bring in laws like that where and when does it stop? Potentially it could affect every mother, what someone might consider low risk, they might consider high risk. At the end of the day, bodily autonomy is too important to lose.
    This is very true and honestly, I think you're right.

  2. #12
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I will never ever be ok with the unborn being put ahead of the mother, ever. This is not Texas (thank god).

    Some people don't deserve to be parents, I get that, some people are so horrible. But if you bring in laws like that where and when does it stop? Potentially it could affect every mother, what someone might consider low risk, they might consider high risk. At the end of the day, bodily autonomy is too important to lose.
    This.

  3. #13
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    In extreme cases, if a pregnant woman is dangerously out of control with her drug or alcohol consumption, then maybe a facility like this will give her the support and help she needs?

    I don't think it should be a prison-like environment, more of a rehab facility.

    I understand people are uncomfortable with an unborn child having 'rights', but I am more uncomfortable thinking about an unborn child being subjected to horrific neglect before they are even born.

    Instead of removing a drug addicted newborn from their drug addicted mother upon birth, this mother could be clean and rehabilitated by the time her baby is born - then go home with her new child in her arms.

    It may give her a chance at a normal life?

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  5. #14
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    If these incubators are happy to risk their childs health, happiness and future then I doubt an education program is going to make them normal, caring human beings. I guess DOCS will continue to just pick up the pieces and try to offer these children a better future than their parents care to. Do people really think a woman has the right to drink to excess, condeming her child to the deformities and issues associated with FAS? You'd be happy to look in the child's eyes and say "well, it was your mother's body so it was her choice to knowingly cause you harm."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    I think that deciding risk taking is subjective. It depends who is deciding the risk taking behaviours. For some it's just smoking and alcohol consumption that would qualify. But for others it could include driving or sitting in the front passenger seat, lettuce, medication and caesarians. Can you imagine a world where the womens rights/wishes are ignored just cos they are pregnant?

    I disagree with this completely.
    Agree!

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tainted View Post
    If these incubators are happy to risk their childs health, happiness and future then I doubt an education program is going to make them normal, caring human beings. I guess DOCS will continue to just pick up the pieces and try to offer these children a better future than their parents care to. Do people really think a woman has the right to drink to excess, condeming her child to the deformities and issues associated with FAS? You'd be happy to look in the child's eyes and say "well, it was your mother's body so it was her choice to knowingly cause you harm."
    Uh... did you just call a pregnant woman an incubator?

    I agree 100% with beebs re bodily autonomy.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tainted View Post
    If these incubators are happy to risk their childs health, happiness and future then I doubt an education program is going to make them normal, caring human beings. I guess DOCS will continue to just pick up the pieces and try to offer these children a better future than their parents care to. Do people really think a woman has the right to drink to excess, condeming her child to the deformities and issues associated with FAS? You'd be happy to look in the child's eyes and say "well, it was your mother's body so it was her choice to knowingly cause you harm."
    I don't think that people are saying they are happy about it or think its ok. My impression from the above posts was that people were just saying that taking away a woman's right to autonomy over her body is not the solution to this obviously devastating issue.

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    This will never happen. Unborn babies are not recognised under law as having rights in this country. If a pregnant woman is engaging in illegal activity the policy already have powers to do something. I would be happy to see a pregnant woman taken to a rehab unit instead of jail if she has an illicit drug problem.

    Apart from altering the treatment for pregnant women engaging in actual illegal activity I can't see any of this ever happening. Nor should it.

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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    I think that changing rules/regulations that will effect ALL women for the sake of a few idiots is dangerous.

    In that case let's lock up all mentally disabled people in case a couple of them are violent. Or let's chemically or surgically castrate everyone with mental illness so that they don't reproduce. Another idea is to stop all women over 35yrs from reproducing in case it leads to chromosomal abnormalities.

    Even the most hardened rapists can avoid castration as it's the have body autonomy but pregnant women don't get it?

    I understand that it's terrible to see children with FAS and other health probs but the costs to make women 'incubators' is too high to pay.

    People with illegal drug addictions should be penalized under drug laws. You want to ban women from drinking a legal substance? Then ban alcohol.

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  16. #20
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I will never ever be ok with the unborn being put ahead of the mother, ever. This is not Texas (thank god).

    Some people don't deserve to be parents, I get that, some people are so horrible. But if you bring in laws like that where and when does it stop? Potentially it could affect every mother, what someone might consider low risk, they might consider high risk. At the end of the day, bodily autonomy is too important to lose.
    Agree mostly.

    More intervention, sure. In the form of education, support, etc. Jail? No. How that will help mother or child I have no idea. Not to mention the fact that it's sometimes easier to get drugs in jail than it is outside.

    This idea actually really scares me. Slippery slope indeed.

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