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  1. #151
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    VicPark - we're going to need an image for the corflute

  2. #152
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    It's a very tough line to draw and I agree its a slippery slope, where do you define the edge of what is harmful.

    I know of a family of 4 sisters, they have about 20 kids between them (no joke, it might be 21). They smoke heavily (pot as well as cigarette), binge drink (I mean say 15 beers in a sitting or a bottle of spirits a few nights a week) and take other drugs when they are pregnant. The babies are born drug addicted and often taken soon after birth. They have been offered every kind of help imaginable. Most of the girls won't go to a dr because they accuse them all of wanting to steal their babies. Any drug/alcohol help is laughed off as it's their body they can do what they want.

    These babies have all got problems, some severe physical illnesses. Every one is in care.

    Some women are just not made to be mothers, they are not good people and some border on evil as anyone who works for DOCS will tell you.

    If you have a repeat offender, do you just sit back and let them do the same thing to the 3rd, 4th, 5th child? There are some cases where I def think the law should be able to step in.

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  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~ElectricPink~ View Post
    But, tell me this....why is it that a pregnant woman's "right" to partake in drug taking, excessive drinking or dangerously risky behaviours triumphs over an unborn child's basic human right to a healthy life, free from harm?
    It's unborn. It doesn't have rights. For the mother to retain her rights, it has to have none. It's just the way it has to be. You cannot let a mother keep all of the rights she had pre-pregnancy AND give the foetus rights, because both rights will conflict. Her right to drink and smoke and whatnot, will conflict with its rights to NOT be affected by those things. For an unborn to have rights, a mother must lose some of hers.

    A "no smoking while pregnant," (for example) law would mean that ONLY pregnant women are affected... thus a woman who falls pregnant loses rights she had before she fell pregnant, and has less rights than a person who is not pregnant. It is not right to lessen the rights of a woman simply because she is carrying a child.

    It would be nice if the foetus and mother could have rights, but they cannot because what the mother does directly affects the foetus. The only way it will be protected is to see her lose her own rights, and I can just never, ever agree with that. Women should be never treated like incubators, taking their rights away for the rights of someone who hasn't even taken a breath yet, who hasn't even been born. Who wouldn't even exist if not for the mother.

    I think that everyone should read The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood. When women are stripped of their rights because they are pregnant, it's a very sad affair indeed.

    What is "dangerous," and what is not is also a matter of personal opinion and personal interpretation of data. The risk of uterine rupture, for example, freaks out a lot of women when it comes to consider a VBAC. The risk is about 1/200... so 0.5%. Meaning 99.5% chance of NOT rupturing. To many, the investigation stops there... they hear 1 in 200 (VBA1C) and think that risk is far too high. I don't personally think that risk is high, but you can then go and break it down further - that's just uterine rupture, not DEATH or DISABILITY FROM uterine rupture. It works out to something like every 1 in 10000 VBAC attempts will result in a foetal death as the result of uterine rupture. But it's all about how you interpret the facts. For me, the risk is pretty much not even worth worrying about. For others, it's something that sees them going in for a repeat caesarean.

    If I am a lawmaker, I'm not going to see it as a risk... but who knows what another lawmaker might think about the available data?

    I hope my point is somewhat illustrated with that example... I couldn't think of anything else to use. lol.

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  6. #154
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    Sassy that's an amazing book (as are all her books).

  7. #155
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    Provided VicPark keeps her promise to subtly reveal herself, I'll print the HTVs.
    Who so you think she is!? I'm intrigued!

    Vic Park I'd vote for you over any of our current political leaders! Joolia and ol' big ears!?

    Back on topic, I believe unborn children should have rights and their mothers should have access to all the help they can get to kick a harmful addiction. I think a law can be passed without starting that slippery slope, but locking up those mothers is ridiculous! But maybe some of these addicted mothers want the help, they just don't know where or how to get it. It's important they don't slip through the cracks.

    The police should charge them for drug offences and instead of community service or jail time as punishment they should be made to seek counseling and medical assistance.

  8. #156
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Losing rights you had before pregnancy like drinking and doing drugs should be lost when you're pregnant. It doesn't have to open floodgates to every single risk during pregnancy, drugs and alcoholism will affect your baby, and when you fall pregnant the mother should know that she'll be arrested and forced into a rehab. If she decides to abort so to keep taking drugs so be it, if she decides to hide from authorities and never go to the dr so be it, she'll lose rights when the baby is born and should be charged with causing serious harm if the baby dies or is badly affected.
    Sounds harsh and unenforceable and will never happen, but if laws were harsher against drug addicts and forced rehabilitation was available maybe less women will consider having kids if they have serious addictions and can't look after them.
    I've seen lots of addicts do the same, kid after kid and none in their care, it makes you think after the 5th make her sterile and she can raise the ones she has, not have more kids in foster care. It's selfish.

  9. #157
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Losing rights you had before pregnancy like drinking and doing drugs should be lost when you're pregnant. It doesn't have to open floodgates to every single risk during pregnancy, drugs and alcoholism will affect your baby, and when you fall pregnant the mother should know that she'll be arrested and forced into a rehab. If she decides to abort so to keep taking drugs so be it, if she decides to hide from authorities and never go to the dr so be it, she'll lose rights when the baby is born and should be charged with causing serious harm if the baby dies or is badly affected.
    Sounds harsh and unenforceable and will never happen, but if laws were harsher against drug addicts and forced rehabilitation was available maybe less women will consider having kids if they have serious addictions and can't look after them.
    I've seen lots of addicts do the same, kid after kid and none in their care, it makes you think after the 5th make her sterile and she can raise the ones she has, not have more kids in foster care. It's selfish.
    Arrested and forced(. Horrifying.

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  11. #158
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Arrested and forced(. Horrifying.
    Yep. Would love to see all addicts arrested and forced into rehab, addicts that put unborn babies, their own children and general society in danger by their addiction. Don't wait till they commit a crime and put them in jail, enforce the fact they're using an illegal substance which is already a crime and make rehab the punishment.

  12. #159
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Someones Mummy View Post
    Yep. Would love to see all addicts arrested and forced into rehab, addicts that put unborn babies, their own children and general society in danger by their addiction. Don't wait till they commit a crime and put them in jail, enforce the fact they're using an illegal substance which is already a crime and make rehab the punishment.
    It wouldn't work. How long do you keep them there? And how many times do you keep bringing them back? You can't force a person to quit, they have to want to. You can't force a person to deal with painful issues before they are ready. I know addiction and crime is a terrible problem don't get me wrong, I just don't think that is the answer. Not to mention the cost.

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  14. #160
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    Default Lock up risk-taking mothers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ffrenchknickers View Post
    Arrested and forced(. Horrifying.
    Sick or dead bubba because mum was allowed to do drugs... Now that's horrifying.


 

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