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  1. #71
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    Default Re: Parenting 'labels'

    Quote Originally Posted by CuddlesAwait View Post
    I'm unsure why parents who use CC and CIO are classed as not responding to their child's needs.

    Those people who feed and rock and sing and lay with their babies in order to get them to sleep are using these methods as a) they are comfortable with them and b) it works for their child.

    Now just imagine you have tried all of these things but your baby either still doesn't get to sleep or does but only catnaps during the day or wakes numerous times a night. It's not good for the baby as they aren't getting enough sleep and its not good for either the baby or the parent for the parent to be beyond exhausted, close to PND, and too tired to give their baby their all.

    So a parent with this type of baby may try Controlled Crying as its gentler than Cry It Out. After all I'm sure their baby is not ill, is clean and dry, not too hot, not too cold, not in pain, has had enough cuddles and quality time with mum, dad or both during the day and they NEED to sleep. This may work for this family! It may be hard for the parent, but it may still work!

    Or maybe when the parents try controlled crying, the baby gets upset by seeing you come and go, so the family resorts to cry it out so that the baby can get the sleep it NEEDS.

    So the parent has responded to all of its needs (as above, not sick, hot, cold etc) and is trying different methods to give the baby suitable sleep. CC or CIO can only take a few nights leaving the family with a baby who now gets the sleep it NEEDS. Parents getting the sleep they need = happy family.

    I would consider THAT responsive parenting!

    Therefore I don't think the AP title really has its place as the AP parents on BH are excluding responsive parents who use CC or CIO.

    'Typical' AP parenting style will always come across as breast above all else and until 2,3,4 years +, baby wearing, co-sleeping, hippie etc which people who class themselves AP parents hate. So why not do away with the title!?
    One point of ap is to strive for balance, but I think leaving a baby for long periods of time without responding to them, until the noise stops, night after night, I think that could be "responding to the situation". But not responding to the child. Step 1 of "cry it out" is to not respond.

    BUT ap does not stand for "absolutely perfect" it's not the be all, end all, is all. It's just one way of looking at things. And within that there is a scale, some would say that using a pram and cot is "not ap" (though anyone who thinks so and put their baby in a car seat hasn't thought that one through )

    And I think APing as a point of discussion is much more inclusive than exclusive. But let's say posted a question in the AP section "my baby isn't sleeping etc etc etc" you are going to get an answer that might suit what you are looking for. I stumbled upon ap looking for ways to get jasper to sleep that didn't involve putting him down and walking away.

    Which is totally fine. It's not AP = good. Not ap = bad.

    And I agree a lot with AP ideals, but I'm not sure I "am ap" because I do time outs with my older child (as in put him in a spot for X number of minutes no matter what because this works for us) and I do try controlled crying/comfort with my baby, and I have actually started baby in daycare when I don't "need" to knowing full well she will hate it.

    So I don't think I can title myself AP. But I certainly like the principles of ap.




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  3. #72
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    Default Parenting 'labels'

    For me! I do not believe that cc/CIO is AP at all... I am unsure as to having children sleeping in different rooms as for my babies are happiest right next to me.

    I believe crying is the way babies communicate and that by leaving them to cry you are not responding/ignoring them. A child crying in your arms/next to you is ok as you are with the child as it goes through it's emotions. You are letting then know it's ok to be upset and that you will always be there for them.

    I disagree with the part where you say that catnapping/night waking As being a problem or an issue that needs to be fixed at a young age. I believe that babies will stop catnapping in their own time (usually when they go to 1-2 sleeps a day) and nightwaking when they are ready for it. If all they need is a gentle nudge then - great! But forcing them to go against their biological and physiological mechanisms I believe is not AP.

    Babies/children will eventually sleep - some just take longer than others to get there.

    Also I believe that you can't tell if bubba is sad, unhappy, lonely or just plain miserable. So till my children can verbalize exactly what bothers them - their needs and comfort comes before mine and cc/CIO is not appropriate.

    I'm speaking as a mother of one child that was a serial catnapper, then horrible night sleeper and now a good and easy going night TT 2yo. I've done the same for my newest baby who is much more chilled out baby but has resumed 2-3 overnight feeds because I've gone back to work at 7mths. She misses me during the day and catches up on her booby time.

    I hope ive explained myself ok

    Quote Originally Posted by CuddlesAwait View Post
    I'm unsure why parents who use CC and CIO are classed as not responding to their child's needs.

    Those people who feed and rock and sing and lay with their babies in order to get them to sleep are using these methods as a) they are comfortable with them and b) it works for their child.

    Now just imagine you have tried all of these things but your baby either still doesn't get to sleep or does but only catnaps during the day or wakes numerous times a night. It's not good for the baby as they aren't getting enough sleep and its not good for either the baby or the parent for the parent to be beyond exhausted, close to PND, and too tired to give their baby their all.

    So a parent with this type of baby may try Controlled Crying as its gentler than Cry It Out. After all I'm sure their baby is not ill, is clean and dry, not too hot, not too cold, not in pain, has had enough cuddles and quality time with mum, dad or both during the day and they NEED to sleep. This may work for this family! It may be hard for the parent, but it may still work!

    Or maybe when the parents try controlled crying, the baby gets upset by seeing you come and go, so the family resorts to cry it out so that the baby can get the sleep it NEEDS.

    So the parent has responded to all of its needs (as above, not sick, hot, cold etc) and is trying different methods to give the baby suitable sleep. CC or CIO can only take a few nights leaving the family with a baby who now gets the sleep it NEEDS. Parents getting the sleep they need = happy family.

    I would consider THAT responsive parenting!

    Therefore I don't think the AP title really has its place as the AP parents on BH are excluding responsive parents who use CC or CIO.

    'Typical' AP parenting style will always come across as breast above all else and until 2,3,4 years +, baby wearing, co-sleeping, hippie etc which people who class themselves AP parents hate. So why not do away with the title!?

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  5. #73
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Parenting 'labels'

    I don't see how leaving a child to cry on their own, no matter how controlled the situation and no matter how loving the motive, can be associated with the word "attachment".

    I'm not making a judgment here, just pointing out that the definitions do not align.

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    Lillynix  (29-01-2013)

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    Default Parenting 'labels'

    Quote Originally Posted by Boobycino View Post
    One point of ap is to strive for balance, but I think leaving a baby for long periods of time without responding to them, until the noise stops, night after night, I think that could be "responding to the situation". But not responding to the child. Step 1 of "cry it out" is to not respond.

    Which is totally fine. It's not AP = good. Not ap = bad.
    I guess long periods is different to everyone. To me, the longest I have left my DD was 10 minutes absolute max when she would stir at night. But it wasn't a painful or emotional cry, just an I'm half awake and trying to get comfortable to go back to sleep cry - I could see her in the monitor. If I has physically responded to her in that moment, yes I would have responded to her, but I would have disrupted her and not responded to her need. So it depends how you define responsive. Is it to the baby themselves or the baby's needs. I see it as needs (hence my post and sorry I wasn't shouting in my caps I just can't use italics on my phone), but others may see it as the baby themselves.

    But I'm glad you said what you did about good and bad. I just always get the impression APers think those of us who may leave our babies for 10 minutes to cry (in my case and I would define what I did as CIO, for me it just never lasts as long as everyone thinks it will) as bad parents, selfish parents etc when we still do what we know works for our individual children.

    But a baby who cries for over half an hour with a really emotional cry is not being responded to OR getting their needs met as its not getting them to sleep.

    People also define crying and whinging differently I guess.

    Either way even from your last example the whole definition leaves a lot of gaps and interpretation so in response to the OP, there shouldn't be labels, it can upset and alienate people and often parenting becomes them and us mentality. Another reason for my thread in general chat. We need to celebrate the parents we are, no matter how we parent and by doing away with titles we can celebrate out parenting and give and seek advice in a non judgmental way.

  8. #75
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    FearlessLeader is offline Winner 2013 - Most Memorable Thread
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    Default Re: Parenting 'labels'

    To me AP is about attending to your baby's needs as much as possible. I've heard a lot of APers talk about how babies are so small and helpless, so they need us to help them live in the world.

    Not AP to me would be bottle feeding by choice because you want to be able to go out sometimes and have more than a few drinks. Or putting your baby into a routine from birth to fit in with the rest of the family. Or not co-sleeping because you don't want to, even if your baby does. Or sending them to the gym creche where they cry for most of an hour while you work out. And I think all of those things are fine. I think many of us feel so mich guilt for not putting our babies first all the time, but everyone has a different breaking point and different limits. The gym goer might need to go to the gym or feels like they would go nuts without a workout. Co-sleeping can cause big problems for many couples. I don't see what's wrong with admitting that sometimes, baby doesn't come first.
    And this is why despite babywearing breastfeeding, no CC and gentle discipline, I don't consider myself AP. My philosophy is sometimes baby comes first, sometimes I do. And not just in terms of needs, sometimes my wants come first too. I don't feel guilty admitting that.

    ETA i have seen crazy competitiveness with APers in real life. Who has the most woven wraps and can tie them in the fanciest style, who eats the most organically, who birthed the most naturally, who breastfed longest. I see it much more with APers than other types of parents.

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  10. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    One thing I've learnt having four babies is that if you think you're an expert on any aspect of parenting, you probably haven't had enough children. Sooner or later one of them will turn it all upside down and make you realise how little you actually know
    Love this statement! I only have 2kids, but DS is determined to challenge everything I thought I knew.


    Until reading a few of these threads I must admit I had a fairly negative attitude towards APing because an acquaintance who states she is an APer, her children have no boundaries and run wild, hitting/spitting/swearing so that was what I associated it with.

    I think that most parents want to raise well adjusted, well mannered, respectful, sympathetic, empathetic children. We're just using different methods.
    When people hear AP being described as 'responsive' people get defensive because they feel that that suggests all other methods are not responsive.

    I would not fit a category, nor wish to; I have done certain things different with my 2, as they are different people, what works for one doesn't always work for the other.
    I feel I am very responsive, I believe in modelling behaviour for my children, no matter how trivial or important the situation and I speak to them respectfully, as its how I expect them to respond to people.
    However, I use time out, FF, use a pram, disposable nappies, so even though the philosophy sounds fine to me the methods don't suit us.



    Quote Originally Posted by ciaomamma View Post
    I just follow my instincts, and I go with the flow. I'll take advice but ultimately we do what ever works. DD is happy and a very easy baby... I like to think its because she's happy and I've met her needs.
    Couldn't imagine any other way really.
    this is my style too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anewme View Post
    No labels here, I woulddn't fit one anyhow.

    In my 19 + years of parenting, I have done what works for each child as a individaul. What worked for one didn't always work for the rest.
    So true!!

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    Default Parenting 'labels'

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Actually out of all those things listed I hate being referred to as a hippy, as I am far from it. If you look up the definition of hippy it talks about people who took drugs which seems anything but AP IMO. Drug takers are more likely to put their needs above everyone elses because they have an addiction....
    Exactly why I don't like titles, especially the AP one. It's not my exact impression or attitude, I refer more to the popular belief / media beat up / misconception of what AP is. It's completely understandable to hate the perception.

  13. #79
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    Default Parenting 'labels'

    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    My philosophy is sometimes baby comes first, sometimes I do. And not just in terms of needs, sometimes my wants come first too. I don't feel guilty admitting that..
    This is exactly how I feel but haven't been able to articulate it! Great to know that others feel the same way. To me this is just normal. Sometimes even DH's wants get taken into account lol!


 

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