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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Could you possibly be any more condescending?

    Not one person said that non vaxxers are "to blame for it all", no one said vaccinated children couldn't pass on illnesses ( though it is less likely) and to claim people who vax don't do as much research is presumptuous in the extreme. And people who vax rely on the fact that the research has been done for them by qualified scientists. Years of study and research has been used to formulate the current vax schedule. I'm not a scientist myself so yes, I trust the professionals to do it for me. There is no logical reason a govt would set out o fund a program to make us sick or autistic.
    Thats what I should have said!!!

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alimia View Post
    Just curious, have you gathered your info from a GP or from google??

    We had a very good doctor actually and we discussed a lot he was for some and against others we decided to just not do any or think about any (but the one she did get ) until the kids were closer to school age of course we dont go to him anymore so now to find another doctor that will be patient and take time to listen and talk about vaccines.

    There are doctors out there that are anti vax. There is 1 that I am prob going to do but need more info on it before I go about it just to make sure I am doing the right thing. I prefer to delay than regret I can always catch them up.

  4. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    You can dicount people's feelings all you want the truth is its their right to do their research and do what they want with their kids.
    Yes, this is true and I respect that. But my bone is when people attempt to influence others with fear instead of facts or when they claim their research is more sound or legitimate or invalidates that of highly qualified medical professionals. In your defence, you haven't done that in this thread.

    As for being a pro-vaccinator who didn't do her research - I didn't need to: modern medical science already did it for me and came to the overwhelming conclusion that VACCINATIONS SAVE LIVES. And that was good enough for me.

  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Could you possibly be any more condescending?

    Not one person said that non vaxxers are "to blame for it all", no one said vaccinated children couldn't pass on illnesses ( though it is less likely) and to claim people who vax don't do as much research is presumptuous in the extreme. And people who vax rely on the fact that the research has been done for them by qualified scientists. Years of study and research has been used to formulate the current vax schedule. I'm not a scientist myself so yes, I trust the professionals to do it for me. There is no logical reason a govt would set out o fund a program to make us sick or autistic.
    I didnt say all I said most dont be so touchy its clear you and others here have done lots of research but majority of parents tend to do what is recommended by Dr.s All I was saying is a lot of pro vaxers say really bad things about non vaxers how its their fault there are outbreaks, how they are crazy I can find them in the very forum if you would like. Most non vaxers simply leave it be say they dont vax and move on when I vaxed my kids I never had a non vaxer be rude or anything to me but now that I dont vax we are always questioned and have crap said to us from pro vaxers.

    Just my experiences maybe yours are different

  6. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    We had a very good doctor actually and we discussed a lot he was for some and against others we decided to just not do any or think about any (but the one she did get ) until the kids were closer to school age of course we dont go to him anymore so now to find another doctor that will be patient and take time to listen and talk about vaccines.

    There are doctors out there that are anti vax. There is 1 that I am prob going to do but need more info on it before I go about it just to make sure I am doing the right thing. I prefer to delay than regret I can always catch them up.
    I highly doubt a medical doctor is anti vaxx but if that's the case he should have his licence removed

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  8. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaShanty View Post
    Yes, this is true and I respect that. But my bone is when people attempt to influence others with fear instead of facts or when they claim their research is more sound or legitimate or invalidates that of highly qualified medical professionals. In your defence, you haven't done that in this thread.

    As for being a pro-vaccinator who didn't do her research - I didn't need to: modern medical science already did it for me and came to the overwhelming conclusion that VACCINATIONS SAVE LIVES. And that was good enough for me.

    I can see your points I think sometimes people say things that they dont mean to be posting as facts but more thoughts and then people jump on them and so they pull up what they found and then get jumped on again lol its a vicious cycle.

    I for one do think that the vaccines I gave my son had something to do with his issues (this is where people will charge in) that a thought and thats how I feel. I was there I saw the changes in him can I say for sure no but after talking to dr. and others I am comfortable not vaxing the other kids at this point. Will I ever? not sure but I am more comfortable holding off and catching up than just doing it and possibly regretting it. I also disagree that we need to vax for chicken pox and the flu. We dont need to prevent every little illness.

    There are other issues I have ingredients etc. I will say one thing I do think is that we give too much to fast. I wish they would spread them out a bit for all kids but thats just my thoughts.

  9. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alimia View Post
    I highly doubt a medical doctor is anti vaxx but if that's the case he should have his licence removed
    Actually doctors commonly have differing opinions to one another over all sorts of things, I don't see why vax would be any different.

    My children are vaxxed to schedule, but I honestly get why some people delay, or don't vaccinate at all.

    I do believe that vaccines *can* harm SOME people. Unfortunately so can vaccine preventable illnesses, so it's a tough one.
    Last edited by OurLittleBlessing; 07-12-2012 at 13:28. Reason: spelling!

  10. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alimia View Post
    I highly doubt a medical doctor is anti vaxx but if that's the case he should have his licence removed

    There are quite a few actually

  11. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    I can see your points I think sometimes people say things that they dont mean to be posting as facts but more thoughts and then people jump on them and so they pull up what they found and then get jumped on again lol its a vicious cycle.

    I for one do think that the vaccines I gave my son had something to do with his issues (this is where people will charge in) that a thought and thats how I feel. I was there I saw the changes in him can I say for sure no but after talking to dr. and others I am comfortable not vaxing the other kids at this point. Will I ever? not sure but I am more comfortable holding off and catching up than just doing it and possibly regretting it. I also disagree that we need to vax for chicken pox and the flu. We dont need to prevent every little illness.

    There are other issues I have ingredients etc. I will say one thing I do think is that we give too much to fast. I wish they would spread them out a bit for all kids but thats just my thoughts.
    I respect your thoughts and your fears about your son. It's very easy to let a fear take hold in your mind, and when this happens to me I usually go and have a chat with someone qualified to allay it (ie my GP or paediatrician when it comes to child health matters). I would encourage you to discuss with your GP your concerns regarding the spacing/schedule of vaccines - I did so when I was informed that I ought to have my DS vaccinated against whooping cough at six weeks instead of two months and found the science behind it very interesting (and yes, I did have him vaccinated at six weeks).

    I will admit that I'm not sure if I'll have my kids vaccinated against chicken pox - that's one to discuss with my GP when it's time. I've always considered getting chicken pox something of a childhood rite of passage (anyone else attend a 'chicken pox party', where your mum would take you to a sick kid's house in the hope you'd catch chicken pox then and get it over and done with?). Despite my mother's best attempts, I never came down with it and ended up choosing to be vaccinated as a young adult. As for the general flu vaccine, my GP actually recommends against it on the basis that it's good for kids to build up some immunity and healthy folk generally don't come down with complications (particularly aggressive, virulent strains such as swine flu and bird flu are a different matter, though). That said, I've had some really unpleasant bouts of flu in the past!

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    Default Vaccinations

    Just to declare my conflict of interest, I am an infectious disease research scientist who's research has contributed to vaccine development, specifically rotavirus vaccination.

    Re: autism and vaccination, yes that research was fraudulent and of the 244 papers examining this possible link, none have shown a causative association and the vast majority are examining the parental confusion following the online, unsubstantiated claims of such a link.

    Re: debate of this issue, it is critical to have open discussion without any judgement. The vast majority of concerned parents are lacking the whole story and crave to understand vaccination before forcing it on their cherished babies. Therefore both sides of the debate should stick only to the facts and remove all emotive argument. I totally understand the emotions associated with vaccination and its risks, and cried at all of my son's infant vaccinations. But I have not yet heard any argument in 20 years of my own research that would convince me that vaccination is a greater risk to his life than the diseases that vaccination protect against. Information on the Internet, unless it is, or cites, refereed published data (ie the article was independently reviewed by several specialists in the field prior to publication), is purely opinion, not fact. Parents should not be making decisions about their children's health based on other people's opinion alone.

    Re: transmission of disease by vaccinated v unvaccinated individuals. As I previously said, no vaccine has 100% efficacy against infection and yes infected vaccinated individuals can still spread the infection. In fact, vaccination induces an immune memory that is recalled and expanded upon exposure to infection. Therefore most of us will develop low grade/asymptomatic infections with vaccine-preventable pathogens many times in our lives that are halted before disease develops due to the recall of our vaccine-induced immune memory. Vaccination, even when only partial, will reduce the infectivity of shed bacteria/virus in most cases, particularly viral infection. Also, because a vaccinated individual will already have a pre-existing immune response, albeit substandard if vaccination was not protective, they will be infectious for a much shorter period of time than a totally naive individual that has to develop an immune response to the infection entirely from scratch. So yes, a vaccinated person could be responsible for transmission of whopping cough to a newborn baby, but the risk is measurably less than for an entirely unvaccinated individual. Also, as I said previously, whooping cough is a difficult disease to control because immunity is so short lived. But that is why parents and grand parents should be vaccinated a new baby is on the scene and as such transmission during the neonatal period will be reduced. Also the mother's circulating antibody that passes into the baby's blood in utero will help to protect the baby for the first few months of life until their own vaccinations take effect.

    Keep talking people 'cos its the only way that the truth can be sorted from the fiction and people can make fully informed decisions.

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