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  1. #21
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    I just deleted my post i hate that!!

    so start again.

    If you are going to Newcastle you must be close to me? How long does it take you to get there?

    We are booked in for surgery on the 15th of Feb so started sniffing yesterday. Everything has moved quite quickly since we found this all out.

    They gave my DH a 20% chance after his Inhibin B test came back as >10 and is FSH level was 31. He did a math equation to figure it out but he said you cant follow it fully. Other people have scored higher and haven't found any so i think you just got to go in and have a look.

    Your DH will hopefully come around with some time. In the begining i was dead against using a donor but once the options are laid out we know it might be our only option. My Dh says there is alot more to being a father than getting a girl pregnant. He knows he will be there from the "conception" to the birth so we can still experience all of it together. Have you thought about seeing a counsellor? Sometimes they can help rationalise things. All i can say is you need time. Eventually your DH will hopefully become more open to the idea. Im sure once they go through the IVF process he will see its not like an affair at all! Nothing sexy about it!

    It would be great to have another young couple going through the same situation as us. I know how isolating it can be with not wanting to tell many people. Hope things are starting to look up for you

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    MGC Bertie  (01-02-2013)

  3. #22
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    The clinics do put you through counselling before accessing donor sperm. It might be a good idea to try to see one of those counsellors, as they deal with this particular issue all the time ... as opposed to a general counsellor, who may never have come across anyone going through this before. x

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    OptimisticAussie  (27-01-2013)

  5. #23
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    Default Azoospermia

    Sorry that was the counselling I was implying...

  6. #24
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    I've only just stumbled across this thread too, but like Peonies and Two Souls, I'm a regular on some of the IVF threads. I agree wholeheartedly with everything they've said, and it was Peonies who gave me such a lot of great advice when I first discovered BubHub.

    My DH also has Azoospermia. Each ejaculate test he gets either 1 or 2 sperm (not 1 or 2 million, just 1 or 2!!). He's had numerous aspirations and biopsies, but strangely they get nothing there. After two unsuccessful IVF/ICSI tests we were told there was nothing else to be done, except for donor sperm. Thankfully my DH was happy with that - he's as desperate to have a baby as me :-)) Most clinics do "known" donor sperm, but only a few do "anonymous" donor sperm, which is what we wanted. We were referred to Fertility First, but I'd by then done a lot more research and really liked what people were saying about IVFA. So I made two appointments to get as much information as I could, and I'm glad I did. At IVFA the FS Prof Illingworth, said "that's great you want donor sperm, but don't you know you have another option?" I just about fell off my seat when he told me about Dr Golovsky and his micro-dissection procedure. Why didn't our two GPs and the FS at Next Generation tell us about this? 9 months had been wasted, to basically stumble upon the information.

    The next week we went ahead with the appointment at Fertility First. There we told our story again, only to have the FS Dr Clark say "don't you know you have another option? We have a MFI Dr Lok who does micro-dissection." So after not even hearing or coming across this in 9 months, we had now two specialists who do the procedure!! Many hours crying over our situation, was kind of made worse by knowing that we'd wasted so much time when we should have been doing the micro-dissection a year ago.

    I have to go out now, so to cut it down, we went and saw both Dr G and Dr L and decided on going with Dr G. Everything's in place now for EPU and micro-dissection about 18 Feb. Yes, you should do the counselling with IVFA - their counsellors are also available for phone consults which is particularly handy, so I don't have to drive all that way.

  7. #25
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    Hi Two Souls,
    It takes us about 4 hours to get to Newcastle, so it's possible to go down and back in one day.
    That formula sounds interesting- I don't think DHs inhibin B has been tested, but perhaps I didn't realise it's significance and overlooked it. I realised we gave the FS all of the information we have so far! Oops.
    Your surgery is the day we plan to call and find out the chromosome results so it could potentially be a big day for the both of us. I really hope they find something for you.
    My DH told his two best mates last night, which I'm glad about because it opens up a support network- poor guys didn't know what to say, haha.
    I hope my DH gets to the same point as yours with the donor (if he needs to). If it comes to that, that'll probably be when he accepts it as like you said, it's the only option. You're right-the affair thing is nuts.
    Let me know how you go on the 15th.

  8. #26
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    Oh my goodness, mid February is a big time for all of us.
    It is very lucky that you changed specialists- the ones we're with at the moment require you to physically bring a sperm donor in with you- not what I'm into. So, the micro-dissection, is that where they insert a needle? Should this ideally be done before a biopsy? Your information will be helpful for us as we're not booking anything in until the blood tests come back.
    On that note, the FS said that he considers IVF to be more invasive than the biopsy, and so therefore he planned to do the biopsy and if sperm is found he will then get me to start the IVF procedures. This will mean that he will do a second biopsy to get the sperm when we need it. Does this sound similar to what others have experienced? I don't really know if I'm right, but I thought they may find like just 1 or so the first time and then there might be none the second time? I guess I should just trust him.
    I am praying for the pain of all of us to be resolved quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by MGC Bertie View Post
    I've only just stumbled across this thread too, but like Peonies and Two Souls, I'm a regular on some of the IVF threads. I agree wholeheartedly with everything they've said, and it was Peonies who gave me such a lot of great advice when I first discovered BubHub.

    My DH also has Azoospermia. Each ejaculate test he gets either 1 or 2 sperm (not 1 or 2 million, just 1 or 2!!). He's had numerous aspirations and biopsies, but strangely they get nothing there. After two unsuccessful IVF/ICSI tests we were told there was nothing else to be done, except for donor sperm. Thankfully my DH was happy with that - he's as desperate to have a baby as me :-)) Most clinics do "known" donor sperm, but only a few do "anonymous" donor sperm, which is what we wanted. We were referred to Fertility First, but I'd by then done a lot more research and really liked what people were saying about IVFA. So I made two appointments to get as much information as I could, and I'm glad I did. At IVFA the FS Prof Illingworth, said "that's great you want donor sperm, but don't you know you have another option?" I just about fell off my seat when he told me about Dr Golovsky and his micro-dissection procedure. Why didn't our two GPs and the FS at Next Generation tell us about this? 9 months had been wasted, to basically stumble upon the information.

    The next week we went ahead with the appointment at Fertility First. There we told our story again, only to have the FS Dr Clark say "don't you know you have another option? We have a MFI Dr Lok who does micro-dissection." So after not even hearing or coming across this in 9 months, we had now two specialists who do the procedure!! Many hours crying over our situation, was kind of made worse by knowing that we'd wasted so much time when we should have been doing the micro-dissection a year ago.

    I have to go out now, so to cut it down, we went and saw both Dr G and Dr L and decided on going with Dr G. Everything's in place now for EPU and micro-dissection about 18 Feb. Yes, you should do the counselling with IVFA - their counsellors are also available for phone consults which is particularly handy, so I don't have to drive all that way.

  9. #27
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    OptimisticAussie...no, no, I need to clarify a few things. There are three invasive procedures that are done to find sperm, and in this order is:
    1) Aspiration (usually just local anasethetic, eg. a gel) a very fine needle, jabbed pot-luck into the testes and fluid withdrawn hoping to get some sperm,
    2) Biopsy (usually just local anasethetic too) a bigger needle, jabbed either pot-luck or under ultrasound into the testes and piece of tissue sample taken out
    3) Micro-dissection (under general anasethetic, in day surgery, only two doctors in NSW do this procedure - Dr L and Dr G) - slices the testes in half, opens it out like a book, under microscope looks for the tubules that are full and extracts all the sperm in these tubules. There's a great Youtube video that my DH googled that shows the operation!!

    If your DH has Non-obstructive Azoospermia, then this last procedure is what you need to be doing. We should not have wasted our time with general FSs doing aspirations and biopsies.

    We changed clinics on purpose because Next Gen don't do anonymous donor sperm and that's what we wanted. If you don't have your own sperm donor or aren't comfortable, then I really recommend that you change clinics.

    I'm confused with what you're saying about with IVF and sperm biopsies, so to clarify, if your DH has no sperm, then you have to do IVF (in the dish) with ICSI (where they inject the sperm into the egg) as just doing IVF (in the dish) does not mean that the sperm will get into the egg on its own. But in order to get some sperm, you need to find it. I'm gathering your DH has done ejaculates, but not any aspirations or biopsies? If so, then the reason why your FS wants to do one of these first two procedures, is that your DH might actually have Obstructive Azoospermia (e.g. he has a blockage where the sperm is there but doesn't come out in the ejaculate). If this is the case, then yes, you need to do one of these aspirations/biopsies first, as this will let you know what your next options are.

    It seems like a multiple choice adventure, but here's what you need to know the answers to:
    1) Results of ejaculates - sperm found - Yes / No? How many? What Johnsons level?
    2) No or little sperm - then aspiration or biopsy - sperm found - Yes / No? how many? What Johnsons level?
    3) If no or little sperm found - then you need micro-dissection - only 2 specialists - Dr Golovsky and Dr Lok - make appointments now, as can be weeks or months to get in to see them (you can always cancel or change later down the track)
    4) If no or little sperm found - will you do "known" donor or "anonymous" donor? If doing "anonymous" donor, only a few clinics in NSW do this (e.g. IVFA and Fertility First). Make appointments to get into them, as wait can be a good number of weeks. Put you name on waiting lists at these clinics for anonymous donor sperm, as waiting lists can range 4-6 months. Make appointment to see one of the clinic's counsellors, as this is compulsory for using donor sperm in Australia.

    Hope that helps. If you're able to answer some of those questions here on BubHub, I know they'll be others who can point you in the right direction.

  10. #28
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    Default Azoospermia

    I would agree with Bertie...if I was you I would get into Dr G as soon as you can. IVFA are really good at booking you in for numerous things on one day if they know you travel. We saw Dr G, the counsellor, had bloods done and saw the nurses to run through the medication in one day.

    My DH is going straight for the dissection as there is no point in getting a biopsy or aspiration done. If there is any sperm they will definitely find it then and if they don't know we know we tried everything we could. I think in the long run you will end up down in Sydney so maybe your best to go there straight up. Good luck with it all and let us know how you get on x

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    MGC Bertie  (29-01-2013)

  12. #29
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    Something interesting I read about "Inhibin B" levels from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12749428

    They did a study on the effects of Inhibin B on the outcomes of testicular sperm extraction (TESE) and of intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI). They looked at two groups of men with non-obstructive azoospermia
    - group "A1" of 25 ICSI cycles from 42 men with Inhibin B <15 pg/mL = 21% fertilisation
    - group "A2" of 35 ICSI cycles from 33 men with Inhibin B > or = 15 pg/mL. = 48% fertilisation

    I know it's not definitive, but it sort of indicates why Dr Golovsky thinks highly of doing the Inhibin B test, and how those with levels <15 he gives 20% chance, while two others here on Bubhub have mentioned previously he gave them 50% chance (I'm guessing now that their Inhibin B levels were >15). Again, I wish we'd known the importance of that test, and would have asked to have had that done a year ago too!! Hindsight is great - I just hope that some others will read this in the future and get the test done as soon as someone mentions a sperm issue. Wish everyone luck :-)



  13. #30
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    Well our four month journey of waiting and hoping; ups and downs, has finally come to an end in a way. Our only option for children is donor sperm and this reality has helped my hubby deal with it.
    What a horrible experience, but only those with a strong marriage would make it through this. The day of his surgery, 3 days ago, was one of the most emotionally draining days of my life.
    I feel some relief that I no longer need to invest so much energy into praying. In fact, I will never pray again.
    We will achieve a baby through love and desire and are excited about this. We think we will go with a family donor.

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    MGC Bertie  (10-03-2013)


 

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