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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEyedPea View Post
    I went to a grammar school - (obviously) they were pretty anal about spelling and grammar, no matter the subject. To this day my school friends are the best writers and speakers I know. I noticed it on FB when we all got back in touch after so many years. My mum also used to correct our speech constantly (and very annoyingly) at home.

    I don't really see how not marking spelling/grammatical errors does a child any favours simply because it's not English homework. You can still praise/grade them for an excellent piece of work while making separate comments about the spelling. A PP said they use blue pen and that there's no need to have big red crosses all over the page. it's not like you're giving them the cane for making errors, just drawing attention to it whilst not necessarily marking them down for it...?

    I don't know, I guess I'm quite shocked that teachers ignore spelling and grammar errors simply because it's not English homework and they don't want to upset the child. Are we raising a generation of kids that at too sensitive to handle any criticism??
    My mom use to correct my speech all the time too I hated it but now I can see why she did it, I do it to my kids too and they hate it but when I met my birth mother and my 7 sisters and brothers I learned to be thankful to my mom and know I am doing right by my kids. I could barely talk to them their speech drove me nuts.

    They sound so ignorant and I still don't know if they are or not because they never have showed me they are smart just talking to them you would think they were uneducated, well all but 1 sister and funny thing is this is the only one of them with a job she and I are the only one that have no trouble finding a job, which is sad but honestly I wouldn't hire them with the way they talk, maybe if it was a labor job that required not talking to anyone.

    I think we started raising kids who couldn't take criticism already, I have noted a lot of young adults that cant take it that I work with if you point out a problem they get upset. It will only get worse if we don't work on how we handle them when they are younger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    Astute teachers who understand pedagogy don't ignore spelling and grammar because they don't want to upset the child - they individualise student learning goals to develop the child's learning in a developmentally appropriate way. This doesn't mean it is ignored but in some children developed in another way - perhaps through word work, word investigation etc.. I would also say that this approach is more often taken with 'reluctant writers' (this is often boys and funnily enough can be gifted children too) and children in the early years.

    It's not about not upsetting it's about what's developmentally appropriate for individual kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    Ah so much to say but on my phone. Correcting kids spelling is one small part of improving their writing and spelling, putting language into context and making meaning are far better markers for improving spelling, its called 'whole language' approach. Sometimes the lesson focus is not spelling but paragraphs, punctuation, writing a sentence, building writing stamina. Some kids wouldn't write more than a few words ever, if they were constantly agonising over spelling. There is so much to constructing a good piece of writing, spelling is only one part. Learning to write is a scaffolded process.
    Yes I agree - but I'm a bit confused because you're talking about teaching style here... I am talking about how you mark work.... I wasn't questioning teaching methods per se. I absolutely do agree that content should be taught in a variety of ways as children/people do learn differently. But I also think spelling and grammar errors should always be pointed out/noted on a student's work no matter the subject because the importance of it shouldn't be ignored just because it isn't a strength of theirs. It's something I'm anal about and I feel really is lacking in education these days. But it's not just up to teachers, it's up to parent's too, and there's a lot of parent's who speak and write appallingly in this country

    I wonder about this term 'gifted' too - is a child who is gifted say, in maths, but can't construct a simple sentence in English, gifted? That may be a question for another thread... One day

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEyedPea View Post
    Yes I agree - but I'm a bit confused because you're talking about teaching style here... I am talking about how you mark work.... I wasn't questioning teaching methods per se. I absolutely do agree that content should be taught in a variety of ways as children/people do learn differently. But I also think spelling and grammar errors should always be pointed out/noted on a student's work no matter the subject because the importance of it shouldn't be ignored just because it isn't a strength of theirs. It's something I'm anal about and I feel really is lacking in education these days. But it's not just up to teachers, it's up to parent's too, and there's a lot of parent's who speak and write appallingly in this country

    I wonder about this term 'gifted' too - is a child who is gifted say, in maths, but can't construct a simple sentence in English, gifted? That may be a question for another thread... One day
    I wonder about the term gifted too... I don't think it's about ignoring the spelling mistake but going another way about teaching spelling other than correction. It really does depend entirely on the child though and the purpose of the lesson. One day with writing you might start looking at how much they've written, the next day breaking it up into paragraphs, then getting them to self edit before you do - so I suppose the road to spelling isn't always an instant correction which is visible in the child's school book, however that doesn't mean it isn't being taught. It's very age dependent too. Spelling can be a very contentious issue within society and also within the teaching profession and I agree with you it is important

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    I once had a teacher who I didn't particularly like but I always wanted her approval for some reason.

    Anyway there was a story competition , an out of school one and I really wanted to win. I wrote the story out in rough draft then painstakingly wrote out a good copy. I asked the teacher to read it. She instead wrote on my essay several times in red ink. I was devastated . I never did enter the story. If only she had just read the story like I had asked.

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    I agree, class size makes a HUGE difference. My junior class is only 18, with an EA, and I get to spend so much time with the children one-on-one than with my upper class where I have 29. It's the upper kids who need the personal time too because some of them have 6-7 years of feeling stupid, very high walls up and a very defeatist attitude. Plus, as mentioned, the students who need direction to further extend themselves beyond the work set. And everything in between. Much easier with 20 kids than 30 kids!

    I also find that for grammar and spelling it is a lot better to discuss the error as well as mark it on the work because often you need to identify where the error stems from. For me, it is usually because of how poorly the english language is spoken at home. I can't tell you how many times a child has been adamant that 'yous' is a word and that they did 'nuffink' wrong. I'm going to guess that the school I teach at is a far cry from the grammar school BlackEyedPea attended though.

    The other thing to note is that the approach will change through the year as the student gains confidence. At the start of the year I am literally faced with several kids who will not even pick up a pencil because they don't see the point as they get everything wrong anyhow (or don't turn up to school even!).

    For me, it's never a blanket 'I don't correct spelling errors in Maths work' and I would agree than on the surface a statement like that does seem a bit lazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I can't tell you how many times a child has been adamant that 'yous' is a word and that they did 'nuffink' wrong.

    Send 'em over here I'll sort them out! I would probably never give up on these kids - I might even resort to bribing them with money to speak the words correctly in order to form new habits!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stretched View Post
    I'm going to guess that the school I teach at is a far cry from the grammar school BlackEyedPea attended though.
    All the more reason the send all the very good teachers over there (like yourself of course!)






  8. #67
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    I just realised that I don't always correct my DS when he speaks, in fact I hardly ever correct him. The reason being that he has had a severe speech delay (he simply didn't talk) and we are just so happy that he's now talking. He has had years of speech therapy, regular activities and games to help his speech. Whilst I don't 'correct' him I will try (when I remember) to mirror/repeat what he's saying in correct English.

    Funny story, a very intelligent Uncle (very well read, learnt English 'old school' style in 1930s) was playing scrabble with his grandson when his grandson asked him "grandpa, how many "F's" are there in "moff" [moth].

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    Bec, parroting back the word/phrase said correctly is the best approach (IMO), especially when they are young. If you 'correct' them, eg. 'No, it's not said moff with an f sound, it's said moth, hear the TH? Not F' You've spoken 3x the incorrect sound and only 2x the correct sound. Keep up what you're doing, it is hard to remember to do it all the time though!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    I just realised that I don't always correct my DS when he speaks, in fact I hardly ever correct him. The reason being that he has had a severe speech delay (he simply didn't talk) and we are just so happy that he's now talking. He has had years of speech therapy, regular activities and games to help his speech. Whilst I don't 'correct' him I will try (when I remember) to mirror/repeat what he's saying in correct English.

    Funny story, a very intelligent Uncle (very well read, learnt English 'old school' style in 1930s) was playing scrabble with his grandson when his grandson asked him "grandpa, how many "F's" are there in "moff" [moth].
    thats what I do Its still correcting like the kids after staying with my birth mom would say "Me and him are going to the store" I would say "Danny and I" they picked up on it pretty quick.


 

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