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  1. #51
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    Hi Grace

    I'm in Melbourne, so unfortunately can't check out the SANDS group you are going to tonight but let me know how it goes as I may be interested in going to one in Melbourne a little down the track. I do want to check out their online support group, but it is on facebook and I have deactivated my facebook for now (because I am overseas from so many friends and family there are too many people who knew I was pregnant but wouldn't know we lost Clem unless I did a status update, I didn't want to risk having to get questions asking how my pregnancy was so I just decided to stay away for a while). I had thought the SANDS online group would be more like a forum like this. It is the same with the Teddy Love Club Pregnancy Loss Group, they are only on facebook as well.

    I was surprised to hear that you received your baby's post-mortem results in the mail as our hospital has booked an appointment for Jan. 7th to go over everything with us. Did anybody go over your results with you? It would be distressing to just get it in the mail and have to google everything. Although I torture myself with google right now, googling everything I have done this pregnancy trying to see if that is why she died. The midwife who delivered Clem has checked up on me a few times and told me off about googling. I pray for answers from the post-mortem but then at the same time wonder if any answer will make me feel better.

  2. #52
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    RE: Cord accidents...

    The midwife who delivered Clem said that if our autopsy comes back with no answers that she would conclude it was the cord because when she was born her cord was wrapped twice tightly around her neck and then around her shoulder, she thinks because it was wrapped tightly that it was most likely compressed, cutting off oxygen. But, unless the autopsy says otherwise, there is no way of knowing if her cord wrapped around her before or after she passed away.

    I had a panic when I first heard this, imagining my baby being strangled, and I text a friend that is an ob/gyn and asked her if Clementine would have suffered. She sent an email saying that a cord accident is unlikely at my gestation, that they are more likely later on. But, she also didn't know the details of how tightly it was wrapped when she said this (ie she thought I was just asking about the cord in general). I haven't clarified with her yet, mostly because I go in phases of wanting to talk to people and respond to their emails and also because part of me doesn't want to torture myself with her opinion when I know she doesn't have all the information so she can't honestly say.

    Munchkin, how long until you get your post-mortem results back?

    ***Just read the website Grace posted and red how unlikely it is for a healthy cord to get wrapped around the baby's neck and how it's more likely to happen once the baby has died***
    Last edited by Kirst33; 19-12-2012 at 13:49. Reason: read cord website

  3. #53
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    so very sorry for your loss

  4. #54
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    Hi Ladies,
    Kirsty, sorry you’ve had to join us, but I’m always here if you want to type away, so don’t ever be sorry!
    Last night was probably my worst night...it was the 4 week mark and I was hysterical...Bed time really gets me at my worst...I don’t know why...but last night when we went to bed, I had to take 2 sleeping tablets, I have been trying to only take one, but that hasn’t been working as I’m still awake hours later...anyways from the moment that I took those last night, I was a mess. I feel like taking them, I’m admitting that something is wrong...I think along with that, I was stressed about a meeting that I had with my work today about returning to work in the new year. They aren’t pressuring, just trying to help me along. Anyways, last night I was hyperventilating, tears were flowing and I literally couldn’t stop...it was the worst. They say it gets easier, but I’m still yet to feel that....
    How are you both doing? Grace, how was the SANDS Group Counselling? I’m not sure if I mentioned it in my previous post, the counsellor suggested meeting with other couples that have been through the same thing, but for me, right now, I don’t think I could do it...but that’s just me right now...I found out that there is a SANDS meetup not far from us so maybe sometime in the future we’ll look into the further.
    Kirsty, your story sounds so familiar to me....not having any idea anything was wrong, our angels looking like they had passed a week or two before and being so so fragile from that...I love love love her name, Clementine. I even told my husband about her name and how much I like it!
    I too, am desperate to know what happened to our little girl. We have an appointment tomorrow with our OB to find out the results of my blood tests. I’m stressed and nervous about this coz if it comes back with something wrong with me, I’ll be devastated...it’s catch 20/20 though, coz if it is something wrong with me, it’s likely that I can take medication or whatever to stop it from happening again... but also, we were told that we may never know...Our autopsy results are due to come back a week or so before Skye’s EDD...
    Kirsty, which hospital did you go to? I was in Northpark in Bundoora.
    It’s great that the families that you work for are being so supportive...it’s good that you have someone to talk to that has been in a similar situation. That’s part of what’s making it so hard for me, I don’t know anyone close to me that has been through anything like this! L
    Christmas this year, I’m not looking forward to it either. My immediate family, I can be around, the extended family, I think might be ok too. I mean I’ll have my moments, I know about that, but what I’m not looking forward to is opening presents...I don’t want to have to pretend to be happy to receive my presents. You know, you open a present, and it’s all oh wow, thank you so much, I always wanted one of those....That’s part of what I’m not looking forward to....along with not wanting to be around everyone that is so happy and festive...
    Ahh the joys of this time of year!
    Grace, I don’t know if it’s just me, but I couldn’t get onto that link. Don’t worry about it if it’s too difficult for you to see again.
    Kirsty, with facebook, when I was ready, I put a nice poem on about our little angel and put RIP little Angel baby Skye and her birth date...that might be something that you eventually do...Facebook is a horrible thing when it comes to what we’ve been through...you can’t wait to put it on there that you are pregnant, but then when this happens...grrr....I think the privacy settings are high on some pages on facebook. I was invited to a closed group, so it’s all secret and people can’t see what you’re posting etc, unless they are members of the group too. I’d be happy to invite you if you want, just need to know your full name to be able to add you on FB...no pressure of course. The ladies on there have all been through the same, and I find them to be so so friendly and supportive....some of them are currently pregnant with their rainbow babies though, just thought I’d mention that as I’d hate for you to get a nasty surprise if you didn’t know and get upset... Anyways, let me know.

  5. #55
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    Hi Guys
    I'm so sorry you had a crap night last night Munchkin. What sleeping pill are you on? Please stop beating yourself up over having to take something or even talk to a therapist. Something is horribly wrong right now, and it's ok to admit that. Do what you have to do to help yourself cope and don't feel bad or that anything you are doing is wrong. Don't be so hard on yourself, it has only been four weeks, and for a while the weekly milestones are going to hit us hard. Like my boss whom I visited today said, it's only been two weeks, you don't need to have all the answers right now, just take it in steps. Maybe because I've dealt with depression before I am better with this part, ie I don't feel ashamed or weird about having to ask for help or do what I have to do. But I can remember 9 years ago when my depression first hit that it took me months to admit something was wrong and that I needed to talk to somebody or take something. I felt like if I saw a doctor or took anything it was like admitting I was crazy but now I just understand that I have to do what I have to do. That said, this feels completely different from any depression I've dealt with. Talking to my friend who lost her twins in August I see the same thing you are talking about. She said it took her weeks to talk or get help from somebody or to even go on the SANDS facebook. But sleep will help you, so do what you can to get it, but obviously I say that within reason. But you have done really well, you posted on here for help and an ear to listen to immediately after loosing Skye. I think if you keep doing that, that eventually, somewhere down line you will start to do ok, or at least know how to cope day to day with your grief over loosing Skye. It will never go away, but we will both learn to cope. I started reading Mia Freedman's blog today MamaMia. She lost her baby girl at the same time years ago. If you put "stillbirth" in her search loads of articles come up. It's like she and others are reading your mind. Here's a link to a letter to her daughter:

    http://www.mamamia.com.au/parenting/...r-got-to-meet/

    Thank you so much for your compliments on her name. I love it. I love saying it and being able to type or write it. We have loved the name since our time in London 9 years ago and it was one of two that we had in mind if we had a girl. When we saw her we knew she was Clementine, the other name was too strong and boisterous for the tiny baby we held. But Clementine was nice and delicate. I already call her "Clem" quite regularly. Her middle name is Sierra because I am from an area in California called the Sierrra Nevedas (full of ski resorts) and that is where my husband and I met. If we are blessed with another little girl in the future her middle name will be Sierra as well to commemorate Clem. What was little Skye's middle name? Was it a name you always had in mind or did you just know when you saw her that she was Skye? Did you hold her?

    I live in St Kilda so gave birth at Sandringham Hospital and Clem was sent to Monash for her autospy. Sandringham was really small and old but was fine, the midwives were really good to me. I hadn't been fussed going public because Australia has a great public system and from my experience as a doula I knew that public and private births don't vary that much here. But I had hoped to originally go to the birth center at Mercy in Heidleberg but at 12 weeks found out because I had a history of depression I couldn't go there and got zoned to Sandringham. If I had known how limited my choices would end up being I would have gone private and probably will for the next, mostly for the continuity of care with my own OB and because I know I will be really paranoid and want scans often in my next pregnancy, which you don't get public. But the Sandringham midwives have been really good to me, they called quite often the first week and a half and were really lovely when I would call (one time 3 times in a day!) to ask a question about Clem. Being Christmas now the midwives that helped me are away for the holidays (as is my therapist) so now I feel kind of on my own. The doctor who is performing Clem's autopsy at Monash has been good as well. He's hard to get ahold of but when we do he answers our questions and has said he'll try to get the results to us as soon as he can, hopefully by Jan. 7th. Where was Skye's autopsy performed?

    I'm a bit like you with the results. What type of answer will be good enough? I don't really want it to have been something wrong with Clem. For some reason I just want her to have been ok, but then does that make it more tragic? But I also don't want it to come back that something was wrong with me, an infection from something I ate, etc, because then I'll torture myself with blame. Like you they have told us that we most likely will never know, that they usually never find an answer. But they did tell us that they'd be able to tell us what it wasn't, ie an infection, genetic abnormality, etc.

    Christmas we're just taking as it comes. My husband is from Geelong so we're meant to be down there but I think we won't go down until Christmas morning and then play it by ear whether we stay the night or not. My husband has said he's happy to leave if I need to, or go for a walk, or into the other room etc. I'm thinking I'll probably need to have a couple wines to deal with his aunts and uncles and cousins with cute babies though.

    I fought that first sip of wine last week. Which is a little funny because I was fine with having an occasional glass while pregnant but for some reason having one after all this felt like I might be celebrating. It's like I don't want to have anything I wasn't allowed to have two weeks ago. But I have had some wine now, and I have to admit that it helps calm my nerves. Does that make me sound like an alcoholic? I'm only talking one glass of red, but it is quite relaxing. That was on advice of my friend who has gone through this, her words: "Wine helps."

    RE: Grace's link, I copied and pasted it into search rather than the actual link part, so the article came up in the search results. But try this link:

    http://irenedw.squarespace.com/was-m...ht-in-diagnos/

    I'll think a bit more about the SANDS facebook, I just don't want to sign onto my facebook right now and deal with random people from home that don't know I lost Clem, potential comments asking how my pregnancy is going, etc. But I guess I could make a different account for SANDS. Is there only one SANDS support group meeting in Melbourne or are there multiple depending on your suburb?

    We cremate Clem tomorrow. I'm calm right now but almost had a meltdown in Prahran market earlier today trying to decide which color flower to buy her. I just want to make sure all the decisions I make are perfect for her. It's weird that besides this incident I've actually found solace doing "Clem jobs." Getting things done for her, buying things for tomorrow etc. After we cremate her we are heading to Healesville Sanctuary where I have booked a session to cuddle a baby wombat. Yes you can do that. It's something I've wanted to do for a while and yesterday I realized it'd be good thing to do on a day we say goodbye to her, not only will it make us happy and give a little solace cuddling something so cute, but it is also something we would have taken her to do and she would have loved it. Or maybe I am projecting my love of animals onto her?

    I hope you both are feeling ok today. Grace, how was the SANDS support group.

    xo

  6. #56
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    Default Wish it was a dream...

    Just wanted to send my love n hugs to u all. I've been so flat out gettin the house ready for Christmas I've had no time to myself. It's been just over a year since we lost Lucy n all I can say is it does become bearable. I did one on one counseling up until 2 months ago, I didn't do any group stuff til July ( 8 months in) as it was too much. Rely on your gp n keep taking sleeping tablets for as long as your mind can't shut down on its own, and ween yourself off slowly. Xxx

  7. #57
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    Hi ladies .. Well the support group was good I guess .. Other women with similar experiences ..it reminded me of an ivf support group .. There was only myself, a lady & her mum, and another couple..so it was good to hear grandma's & husband side to the experiences..we just took it in turns talking about what we had gone through.. Yes we all cried when it was each of our turn to talk.. The lady with her mum, went to the same hospital as me & had a different experience ... A much better experience, if I can say that when giving birth to a still born ... There wasn't any pressure to talk about things & we cld ask the other couples about their experience, doctors, cremations, birth, if they knew why & when their baby passed away.. I think you can also call sands & chat over the phone & have 1 on 1 meet ups.. Also SIDS & kids are for early losses as well, not just SIDS I've been told.. But I havnt yet looked into it.. Did I get anything out of it.. No not really .. But it was only 1 group session..
    Munchkin.. I think having had done ivf I am quiet used to having low self esteem, having many melt downs seeing other pregnant women, being a ranting crazy women, admitting that I'm mentally going crazy & hating the world , pregnant women etc.. etc...I've probably had or been close to depression before but somehow come out of it.. But I also feel that maybe all my emotions have just been snow balling since trying for a family 8 years ago.. But it's about 7 wks now... and I do find that I'm starting to cry less.. The dreams .. Thoughts.., of being pregnant .. Seems like a bad joke someone pranked me with.. I'm slowly giving away my baby things.. No longer crying at the separation of handing over baby clothes... Toys.. I was even attached to our car.. We were wanting to get a new car, but had to keep in mind having enough room for 3 children seats in the back.. When hubby re suggested the idea last week.. I lost the plot.. Getting a new car meant that we were having a baby .. But there's no baby now.. No reason to get a new car, I just had associated a new baby & new car in the same sentence .. I am a self confessed fruit loop !!!!
    I agree night times are the worst.. You try n hold it together during the day, when ur in front of people.. At night when ur in the comfort & security of your own home. & there's no one else ( for me when the kids are asleep) all the thoughts, dreams, plans for the future are all scrambled up... its gone.. in the click of someone fingers our worlds have come crashing down what is now the reality of all that being a dream ... I find that Valium Helps me.. Just relaxes me, or shld I say it shuts up all the constant voices in my head.. and the cycle of self blame & why why me... Why why... Am I not worthy.. Am I a bad person, can I not cope with another baby.., ( see crazy here) I've admitted to lots of crazy thoughts and feeling over the past few years.. And now losing my baby at 20 wks has just tipped me over the edge... But I'm at the end of my baby making years... I no longer need or yearn to such for answers ..( don't get me wrong, I want to know why my baby died) but I nooo longer need to google my brains out.., the voices inside my head aren't as vicious as the early days.. weeks...Maybe that's the antidepressants.. Maybe that's me slowly accepting that we are just a family of 4, BUT I have tried my extreme Hardest to give my girls another sibling ..to think that I've been pregnant 6 times ... I could of possibly had 6 children OMG.. But in reality I only have 2 to hold.. Just messes with my head.. Seeing the psych has been good, I guess I'm quiet used to talking to doctors about our fertility so, to talk about losing a baby at 20 wks is just 2nd nature .. I can just ramble to him & its ok.. What u say in our sessions doesn't have to make sense.. My head is all jumbled up with mixed thoughts & feeling about being pregnant .. Then in the blink of an eye.. In the routine of an appiontment.. Hearing those words ..my whole future has changed ... Munchkin..Are u seeing the same grief counselor from the hospital or a new one..my 1st session with tue psych didnt achieve much.. pretty much balled eyes out for an hour..maybe reasses after ur 2nd session.. but if it doesnt feel right id maybe suggest someone else?? try not to feel shame in taking any medication to help you through this traumatic time.. The medication is to help you.. You need to look after you so do what you need, like kirst says.. Your body & mind is going through soooo many changes soo quickly.. Your rational thinking is still trying to adjust to it all.. I'd maybe ask ur gp for some Valium .. The 2mg is good to help relax the mind, & doesn't just zonk you out.. I can imagine ur anxiety in the lead up in returning to work .. After returning to work from my m/c I had to pretend that all was ok.. No one knew about my preg so in a way it was kind of an escape to be at work, but for you to return to work, and people know your loss will be hard.. People who don't what to say can & will say stupid things..
    Sorry if I seem like I'm repeating myself... My head is in the same spin cycle.. I'm glad that you both have follow up appointments ... I know what you mean about hoping its something rather than nothing ... At least you can try n fix something rather than not being able to fix anything.. Like my unexplained infertility.. Or apparent lack of ovulating to get pregnant yet we had to do the full on ivf with extra drugs to get pregnant & try n hold onto my pregnancy...sorry if I'm rambling .. A lot of my anxiety & emotional statues, envy of pregnant women has come from years of wanting a family .. Ohh and FET is frozen embroy transfer..
    Kirst ... Having ur friend go through the same experience can help you a lot.. I've been told that even years after your loss... even with having more children that there are still tears.. Still the emotions of the loss.. Just all the what ifs aren't as constant.. Kirst so glad that you got Clem ashes.. Are u putting them in a bereavement bear, or keeping them in a special box. Soooo glad that the hospital & midwives were caring & helpful.. Can make all the difference... Have you spoken to your gp about everything as well.. In the early days I wld see my gp weekly for a half hour cry session until he decided to put me on a mental health plan ..how are you coping eating ..sleeping .. Functioning.. I still find it hard to concentrate on tasks.. or i try to do 5 things at once then get all flustered that i havnt finished anything..This time of year is extra hard.. There's no pleasantness in Christmas or the new year .. Every time I hear a Xmas carol I just Kringe!!!I get cranky .. or I just zone out .. Thanks for fixing up my web link .. Was it of any use?? Or maybe can use that to ask questions to ur obs or autopsy guy.. And just to annoy me even more my period has returned already .. So another bloody reminder that I'm not pregnant ..
    Sorry for writing an essay.. I will try & write more often so then hopefully say less..
    Sending you all big hugsxxxx
    Sorry will write again soon, as its just taken me 2 days to try n finish writing this reply

  8. #58
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    I am so sorry to read this I have no words but a million hugs for you. No mother should have to endure that.

  9. #59
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    Hi Girls-

    Ugh, what a day. We said goodbye to Clem this morning and now she has been sent to be cremated. We will get her ashes back sometime next week. We found a pretty little glass box and had her name and birthdate engraved on it.

    Saying goodbye was really hard and frightening. I don't want my baby to be ashes, I just want her to be back all snug and safe in my tummy. We kept it private, just my husband and I and a priest to do a blessing. I am not super religious but desperately wanted her to be blessed, I felt like I had to do everything possible to make sure she is taken care of. I am actually really grateful to the priest. We had never met him before, only communicated via phone and email arranging this day for Clem and I found him to be such a comfort. He knew all the right things to say and do and he was such a help in enabling me to be able to walk away from her tiny little coffin. We read her a much loved story that I had been hoping to read her to sleep at night and also read her the letters we had written to her. Then we drove out to Healesville Sanctuary and cuddled two baby wombats that brought a smile to our faces. We would have done something like that with Clem and know she would have loved it so we saw it as a little way of commemorating her. We also had a nice meal before coming home tonight. I am trying to tell myself that I am grateful for at least the short time I had with her, that I got to hold her and give her a kiss and see that she looked like her daddy rather than never having had her at all. But obviously that is easier said than done!!! But I am trying... But most of the time I just want to cry and scream about the fact that I'll never get to know her or cuddle her.

    Did you girls hold your babies?

    I went to see my GP about 5 days after I gave birth to Clem. I had already used the six visits from my mental health plan and needed to get a "review" for more visits. I also needed more sleeping pills as the doctor at the hospital only gave me a week's worth and I knew that wouldn't cut it! Maybe I could fall asleep without a pill but I am too scared to try. Right now I am doing ok at night, I read the book "You are not Alone" that the hospital gave me until I can't keep my eyes open and then the pill knocks me out for a few hours. For me it is the waking up in the morning that is the hardest. I feel really scared, sad, empty, alone, heartbroken that she will never come back.

    Did you guys get a bag from the hospital from the Teddy Love Club Pregnancy Loss group? It came with a teddy (that I sleep with every night) and lots of pamphlets and books from TLC and SANDS about what we are going through, what to expect, etc. I have one complaint I think of making to the hospital, that two of the books that were in the bag should have been given to us while we were waiting to give birth. The whole first half of them are called "In Hospital" and answer all your questions about what to expect and tell you what questions you should be asking. The midwives were so lovely to us and kept asking us if we had any questions, but we didn't know what to ask!!! Those books would have helped at those times. Like did you know there is a charity group of photographers that will come take a lovely picture of you and your baby? I wish I had known that, I would have loved a nice shot of us holding Clem.

    How was your experience at the hospital? From my experience as a doula I know it depends so much on the midwives on duty. If you have crap midwives it can be really hard!

    Grace, I think it sounds like your anti-depressants probably are working. They help take the edge off, you still feel things but not quite as panicky (at least for me that's how they were) and it sounds like they are possibly starting to kick in for you. I am not on them right now, which is strange, I thought for sure I would crash and need them right now but so far it just seems to be grief. From what you have told us you probably have had years of emotions building up, added with all the grief of loosing your baby is just too much! Like I said, we have to just do what we have to do to keep ourselves ok. I would like to try to stay off them, I had gone off them before we started trying (and because I had been doing fine for a while) and because we don't know when we will want to try again I would ideally like to keep them out of my system for a future pregnancy. But if I have to go back on them I will.

    As far as feeling therapy may not be doing much. From my experience the therapist usually spends a few sessions just listening to you and getting to know you, then they can better help you in the future sessions. Right now I am sure they know that your emotions are really raw and they are just letting you get everything you need to out and trying to learn about what is going through your mind right now. Then, they'll slowly start to ask questions that make you think a little bit differently, make suggestions, etc. So be patient as this is going to be a long road for us all! That said, if you're not comfortable with the therapist or not getting a good "vibe" then pick a new one. It's fine to not like who you are seeing and want to try somebody else.

    I did find the cord website helpful. But it mostly made me realize that Clem's cord probably wrapped around her neck after she passed rather than being the cause.

    Having a friend who has gone through this recently has helped a lot. She is still grieving her twins but is far enough along in her process to help me. But since she only lost her girls in August she still remembers all the feelings I am having quite well so is completely understanding. We actually know another couple that lost their baby about a month ago at the same gestation as me, but they haven't reached out to us, probably not ready to. How can we now know two other couples plus us in the same broad circle of friends that has lost a baby around 20 weeks?! Isn't that statistically impossible???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I don't know what I am going to do now that I don't have any "Clem jobs." The past week I needed to get things to put in her coffin and prepare for today and having things to do for her where kind of getting me through the days. But now we've said goodbye to her and given her her gifts and I'll never have another opportunity to do jobs for her again. I want to make a memory box for the few momentoes we have of her and I decided I am going to keep writing weekly in my pregnancy journal, entries will now just be letters to Clem rather than updates. I also decided I will make or buy a special Christmas ornament every year for her. I guess all these things can be my "Clem jobs" to help me get through the weeks. Have you guys been writing to your babies? Have you named your baby Grace (maybe you mentioned it in an earlier post that I haven't seen...)? The past week I have found that writing letters to her helps a lot, a little way to feel closer to her.

    I should go. xoxo
    Last edited by Kirst33; 21-12-2012 at 21:00.

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    Default Wish it was a dream...

    Are you friggin' serious?!?!??! Somebody just text us at 11.30 at night to announce the birth of their baby!! I feel like I'm going to loose it!!! A baby born on the same day that I have to cremate mine?! Not only that, I was calm, about to fall asleep and now I feel like I'm going to loose it!!!!


 

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Billington Street
For stationery as unique as you are! ♥ Handmade, custom designed stationery for all of life's celebrations
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Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!